Jack Daw or Hamelin for next Outcast Master

[Zool]

I am mostly a Resser player (Molly, McMourning) and I also love playing Zoraida for neverborn, but I play Leveticus as my Outcast master since i already had so many models that he can hire. I am keen to start another Outcast master so I am torn between Jack Daw and Hamelin. Which masters do you prefer and why? I tend to really enjoy support type masters myself so what are jack Daw and Hamelin's play styles ?

[Drool_bucket]

Hamelin's playstyle is all his own.  He plays a slow game, he plays a summoning cycle that is very unique.  He manipulates his own crew and often sacrifices them.  He works with so many different models that each of his crews can be very different, but often drift towards his "theme'd" stuff by the end.  I did not care for him at first but as I have played him more and more I have found that he can cause a lot of problems for the opponent in an most cases, in particular Strats and Schemes he can seem unbeatable.

Daw is interesting because, IMO, he makes use of his own themed models (anything with Tormented) a lot more because there are so many of them now.  This causes his crews to be more themed start to finish.  While he plays a "control" style game, I find that Daw can pull off some truly amazing actions by himself, contrary to Hamelins manipulating style.

In the end I think they are both great second selections, they both do a lot of things Levi doesn't.  In the end, I would probably do Daw only because Hamelin can cause more grief to the opponent do to the longer turns he has, the removal of activation control as a tactic and in general the constant feeling of helplessness against him.

[JGregs]

I haven't played Hamelin yet but I do play Jack Daw. . . a lot. Jack Daw took me a while to understand. He has some really great model synergies which I think is really fun. When I play him there are so many control effects going on it feels like some models get multiple activations just because everything is getting pushed around or "re-used" by Twist and Turn

[daniello_s]

The only problem I found with Jack is that if he dies then your whole crew is (most of the time) in pieces

[JGregs]

46 minutes ago, daniello_s said:

The only problem I found with Jack is that if he dies then your whole crew is (most of the time) in pieces

this is true but he has enough movement tricks and resiliency with "Oldest Magic"  that if he is dying either you really messed up or the opponent spent several activations locking you down and killing you 

[the proxy union]

I play Hamelin a lot and he does some busted things. I also think he has gotten to be a bit of a crutch for me; I am now so used to out activating my opponents by 3+ activations that when I use a crew with 7, or god forbid 6 models, it feels like an uphill battle and my mind is working overtime to plan out a turn in advance while it is happening. Hamelin is stupid good but using him too much makes you get used to his play style of out-activating your opponent. also the potential for player error with him is huge; you need to be able to identify the inflection points during the game turn when you need to act instead of making rats. that is on top of remembering all of the crap your models do outside of the rat engine loop.

Jack on the other hand is more likely to be out activated and plays more elite with control/debuff/mixed crew tactics. Im still in the process of feeling him out on the table and plan on getting some quality table time in with him soon.

as for choices... I feel that jack is more rewarding to master, but Hamelin can cover for levi better when given certain scheme pools...

-Proxy