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Why isn't Ice Golem in every list?


paxmiles

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Why isn't Ice Golem in every list?

I love chucking things around the table.

I love that it can target enemy models who get no defenses against it, plus gain Insignifigant for a turn (which is a pretty nifty way to cuddle enemy models). You can push friendlies out of combat, push allies into combat, shove models into aura or pulse range, or just add an effective 10" to the range of any shooting attack. You can even damage models simply by colliding them into each other.

Beyond that, he's got solid offensive abilities if the enemy comes to him, decent armor, a few immunities, and even get's to explode when the enemy finally does kill him. He's got a good ht and base for blocking LOS too. Plus he's an Enforcer that isn't Rare.

He's got very easy synergy with all of the Masters.

I'm really surprised he isn't in more lists. I tend to only see him in my lists and in Raspy lists.

EDIT: I keep calling Ice Golem a "He" despite no clear evidence to suggest a gender....

Edited by paxmiles
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It is slow and very easy to kill. That's why.

Truth. He's almost better with Ramos than Raspy, because at least Reactivate gives him a chance of making combat. And tossing electrical creations into other people is just funny/ a fun way of getting scrap markers far forward. Is it competitive/efficient? That's a whole different question.

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It is slow and very easy to kill. That's why.

Truth. He's almost better with Ramos than Raspy, because at least Reactivate gives him a chance of making combat. And tossing electrical creations into other people is just funny/ a fun way of getting scrap markers far forward. Is it competitive/efficient? That's a whole different question.

He's fun with Marcus too, as Malifaux Raptor can easily make him a Beast for the rest of the game. Molemen are a great model to chuck into enemy models, as they can reduce the damage all the way to zero.

But in terms of doing damage, the Steam Arachnids are often better choices than the Electric Creation, as you can throw them into base with an enemy, which then has to take a TN13 Df test while subject to "Latch On." Plus if the spider takes the damage, it is reduced by their armor.

An extra 10" of movement for a Fire Gamin, means an effective 20" of range on their Spit Magma. Even the Metal Gamin, really gains if the opponent has constructs, as that's effective 26" of range on that Magnetism.

Though my favorite use for this guy is with Leveticus, but that's a whole other sub-forum.

Edited by paxmiles
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It is slow and very easy to kill. That's why.

Truth. He's almost better with Ramos than Raspy, because at least Reactivate gives him a chance of making combat. And tossing electrical creations into other people is just funny/ a fun way of getting scrap markers far forward. Is it competitive/efficient? That's a whole different question.

He's fun with Marcus too, as Malifaux Raptor can easily make him a Beast for the rest of the game. Molemen are a great model to chuck into enemy models, as they can reduce the damage all the way to zero.

But in terms of doing damage, the Steam Arachnids are often better choices than the Electric Creation, as you can throw them into base with an enemy, which then has to take a TN13 Df test while subject to "Latch On." Plus if the spider takes the damage, it is reduced by their armor.

An extra 10" of movement for a Fire Gamin, means an effective 20" of range on their Spit Magma. Even the Metal Gamin, really gains if the opponent has constructs, as that's effective 26" of range on that Magnetism.

Though my favorite use for this guy is with Leveticus, but that's a whole other sub-forum.

Do tell... I'm an Outcast player in addition to being a Resser, and Leve is one of my goto masters...

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Nothing specific, as Leveticus has such a broad selection of Ht1 models. I mean, there are lots of uses, but they are contextual to your build.

Basically, it comes down to the basic uses of that toss. Does 10" of push help your model? They may get insignificant for a turn, it doesn't require any of the Ht1 model's actions, and is a 1 ap action on a construct which makes it eligble for things like Assimilate, Obey, or Command Construct.

But the model selection is impressive (ht1 models), as you've got almost all the effigies, Malifaux Rats, Rat Kings, Void Wretches, Wicked Dolls, Watchers, Student of Conflict, Malifaux Child, Mobile Toolkit, Electric Creation, Steam Arachnids, Steam Arachnid Swarm, Fire, Metal and Ice Gamins, Canine Remains and Guild Hounds (Via Nix with Hollow). I've probably missed a few, plus I think there are Gremlin Mercs which are Ht 1, but I don't have those cards.

A good chunk of these models are insignificant anyway, so 10" of push prior to moving on turn 1, yes please.

Heck, even just the Malifaux Rats. I take that Obedient Wretch, and I toss a rat at the Ice Golem. It targets Df, so the low Df is great, now I just need a crow and I've got a free rat in base contact. I can do this twice, gain two rats pretty easy (might have to cheat the crows), toss both rats at a target which can deal much more damage than the rats are capable actually doing themselves or just toss them towards other rats, so when they activate I gain a rat king. I take like 2 point of damage on my Ice Golem, which is fine. And for Leveticus, the Rat Kings and Rat Catchers are nifty options, as they can serve as anchors for the Hollow Waifs.

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I love that it can target enemy models who get no defenses against it, plus gain Insignifigant for a turn (which is a pretty nifty way to cuddle enemy models). You can push friendlies out of combat, push allies into combat, shove models into aura or pulse range, or just add an effective 10" to the range of any shooting attack. You can even damage models simply by colliding them into each other.

 

Unless you play a lot against Gremlins tossing enemies will rarely come up as it only works on Ht 1 models. When using it on friendlies you trade an AP from 10 SS model for extra movement on a ~4 SS model. Occasional this will be worth it for schemes or clogging up the enemy if there is some bottle neck in the terrain, but if you want to do some real damage getting the Ice Golem engaged asap is the way to go as Icy Talon is pretty decent with its built in Slow trigger, and well Melee Expert.

Df 2 is terrible, just terribly terribly terrible... Did I mention that Df 2 is terrible? I like the word terrible... But anyway, Df 2 is terrible, he will get hit by anyone trying and subsequently take noticeably more damage than you'd expect from a Armour 2 model.

That said, I do think that tossing Electrical Creations is pretty funny.

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Unless you play a lot against Gremlins tossing enemies will rarely come up as it only works on Ht 1 models. When using it on friendlies you trade an AP from 10 SS model for extra movement on a ~4 SS model. Occasional this will be worth it for schemes or clogging up the enemy if there is some bottle neck in the terrain, but if you want to do some real damage getting the Ice Golem engaged asap is the way to go as Icy Talon is pretty decent with its built in Slow trigger, and well Melee Expert.

Df 2 is terrible, just terribly terribly terrible... Did I mention that Df 2 is terrible? I like the word terrible... But anyway, Df 2 is terrible, he will get hit by anyone trying and subsequently take noticeably more damage than you'd expect from a Armour 2 model.

That said, I do think that tossing Electrical Creations is pretty funny.

Df 2 is terrible. But as Arcanists, you have 2 very easy solutions for this. First would be Imbued Protection, which as an Enforcer, it can take. That gives it Df 4, which is still not amazing. The other option would be Metal Protection via a Metal Gamin, which would make it Df6, but has the limitation of needing to keep a Metal Gamin within 3" at all times in order to maintain the condition.

You could also look into some Ht5 blocking markers to indirectly protect your low Df model by denying line of sight. Rail Golem can also block LoS, as he's Height 4.

A Leveticus Crew lacks access to Df buff upgrades, but he's got a much broader model selection, so it's certainly a trade off.

And, yeah, it's a 10ss model that can toss 2 models per turn, models which are often much cheaper than this model. But 10" pushes without any flips, that's very solid. It also only does damage if the target collides with other models (or impassible terrain).  

A really simple, but useful use is with the Steam Arachnid Swarm. That's a Ht 1 model. Chuck it towards an enemy scheme or corpse marker. Might need to double walk in there, but you've got that 0 action Devouring Swarm with 20" of effective range in a single turn (without reactivations).

Edited by paxmiles
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The problem with Imbued protection is that for 12 SS you can get some really hot shit in Arcanists, e.g. Howard and Mech Rider. The problem with Metal Protection is that it's a pain in ass to keep it up in practice.

I actually don't think the Ice Golem is terrible on the whole, it's ok. But as Arcanists have so many good options in that price range I've only used it with Frozen Heart where the synergies gives it a little extra. I might try it with Ramos for giggles some time, but it's pretty far down the list with every other Arcanist (I have no opinion on Leveticus).

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It is slow and very easy to kill. That's why.

he's definitely slow by himself but with Snowstorm pulling him 8" that's no longer a problem. Imbued protection and stacked armor make him anything but easy to kill not to mention if he's in Snowstorm's bullet proof aura. Outside of the Children of December I can't imagine taking him but in a Frozen Heart list he becomes a decent speed, tank that can wreck a master in one flip with a little luck. I've killed Perdita and Lilith with him.

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It is slow and very easy to kill. That's why.

he's definitely slow by himself but with Snowstorm pulling him 8" that's no longer a problem. Imbued protection and stacked armor make him anything but easy to kill not to mention if he's in Snowstorm's bullet proof aura. Outside of the Children of December I can't imagine taking him but in a Frozen Heart list he becomes a decent speed, tank that can wreck a master in one flip with a little luck. I've killed Perdita and Lilith with him.

It takes a huge amount of luck for the Ice Golem to even hit Perdita before she kills it with 2 shots.

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I love that it can target enemy models who get no defenses against it, plus gain Insignifigant for a turn (which is a pretty nifty way to cuddle enemy models). You can push friendlies out of combat, push allies into combat, shove models into aura or pulse range, or just add an effective 10" to the range of any shooting attack. You can even damage models simply by colliding them into each other.

 

Unless you play a lot against Gremlins tossing enemies will rarely come up as it only works on Ht 1 models. When using it on friendlies you trade an AP from 10 SS model for extra movement on a ~4 SS model. Occasional this will be worth it for schemes or clogging up the enemy if there is some bottle neck in the terrain, but if you want to do some real damage getting the Ice Golem engaged asap is the way to go as Icy Talon is pretty decent with its built in Slow trigger, and well Melee Expert.

Df 2 is terrible, just terribly terribly terrible... Did I mention that Df 2 is terrible? I like the word terrible... But anyway, Df 2 is terrible, he will get hit by anyone trying and subsequently take noticeably more damage than you'd expect from a Armour 2 model.

That said, I do think that tossing Electrical Creations is pretty funny.

See, I play against Gremalos all the time.  He will rarely get to toss them, since they are both significantly quicker - especially with Reckless - and deal plenty of damage at range to a Df2 model, regardless of Armor.

Electric hand grenades are funny, but the Golem was immediately replaced by Snow Storm for me after the beta.

Don't listen to us though Golembro.  I think I'm the only player who likes the Blessed of December.  Everyone else seems to think the Cerberus does everything it does better.  Head count elitism, that's all it is.

Edited by Uktena
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Though my favorite use for this guy is with Leveticus, but that's a whole other sub-forum.

Do tell... I'm an Outcast player in addition to being a Resser, and Leve is one of my goto masters...

Okay, latest idea: If you took nix with Hollow, you'd be able to field guild hounds with the Ice Golem. The guild hounds are notable in that they can ignore the Insignificant ability and are also ht1 models. So the Golem can toss them and they can still interact on the same turn.

That said, I'm looking at 3ss in upgrades (Hollow+Pariah of Iron), 10ss in the Ice Golem, 8ss in Nix, and another 3ss per guild hound. Yeah, would be very iffy if you were not fielding those models anyway...Still, it's an interesting option.

Any other ht1 models with "Pack Mentality" other than those guild hounds?

EDIT: Oh, for the record, that's much easier in an Arcanists list, as Marcus can just hire both Guild Hounds and Ice Golem without any upgrades or other models.

Edited by paxmiles
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Found a new one. Works for both Arcanists and Pariah of Iron Leveticus Crews:

Johan's "Rebel Yell" would remove the Insignificant condition on a thrown ht1 model. He's an Outcast Merc, so that's attainable by both factions. It does require a Ram, but he's 1 positive twist if there's a M&SU model within 3", which isn't exactly difficult in either a Pariah of Iron Leveticus or Arcanist Crew.

Johan's Relic Hammer could also be used to target the Ice Golem (who's relent) and take 1 point of damage (minimum 3 damage, reduced by 2 armor), but if the trigger went off (1 mask), the golem would push 3". The Mask trigger would be annoying, but again, it would likely be at a positive twist.

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Found a new one. Works for both Arcanists and Pariah of Iron Leveticus Crews:

Johan's "Rebel Yell" would remove the Insignificant condition on a thrown ht1 model. He's an Outcast Merc, so that's attainable by both factions. It does require a Ram, but he's 1 positive twist if there's a M&SU model within 3", which isn't exactly difficult in either a Pariah of Iron Leveticus or Arcanist Crew.

Johan's Relic Hammer could also be used to target the Ice Golem (who's relent) and take 1 point of damage (minimum 3 damage, reduced by 2 armor), but if the trigger went off (1 mask), the golem would push 3". The Mask trigger would be annoying, but again, it would likely be at a positive twist.

That's great. But you have to now throw the model near Johan, when usually you'd use it to throw somewhere you haven't already got a unit.

Not to mention you've spent 2 AP from models totaling a least 17 Soul Stones on a 4 soul stone model.

Oh, and you've used Johans rebel yell to end a not very important condition on an even less important model.

I think that your trick while neat, is so resource intensive and has such limited benefits that it's not really worth it.

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Found a new one. Works for both Arcanists and Pariah of Iron Leveticus Crews:

Johan's "Rebel Yell" would remove the Insignificant condition on a thrown ht1 model. He's an Outcast Merc, so that's attainable by both factions. It does require a Ram, but he's 1 positive twist if there's a M&SU model within 3", which isn't exactly difficult in either a Pariah of Iron Leveticus or Arcanist Crew.

Johan's Relic Hammer could also be used to target the Ice Golem (who's relent) and take 1 point of damage (minimum 3 damage, reduced by 2 armor), but if the trigger went off (1 mask), the golem would push 3". The Mask trigger would be annoying, but again, it would likely be at a positive twist.

Aside from the other posters points, I'm also pretty sure that Insignificant isn't a condition - its printed on the card, so is a characteristic.  

Basically, using movement tricks to push the Golem and its target together, and then using the Golem to hit people very, very hard at close range is a far better use of SS and activations ... 

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Off the top of my head I can think of one or two very limited cases where you might need an extra few inches (of movement...) to get a scheme marker in place, so it's an option to be aware of but I wouldn't go out of my way to do this.

 

it's just that for one stone extra you can have Snow Storm and they just have so much more utility without the absurdly low def. I struggle to think of stuff the golem does that they don't.

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Aside from the other posters points, I'm also pretty sure that Insignificant isn't a condition - its printed on the card, so is a characteristic. 

Insignificant as a result of Toss is a condition.

Aaaah - I thought you were referring to the dogs that become significant when operating in packs. 

Anyways, tossing something to within range of Joss to de-insignificantize (ahem) is starting to get pretty complicated!

 

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Found a new one. Works for both Arcanists and Pariah of Iron Leveticus Crews:

Johan's "Rebel Yell" would remove the Insignificant condition on a thrown ht1 model. He's an Outcast Merc, so that's attainable by both factions. It does require a Ram, but he's 1 positive twist if there's a M&SU model within 3", which isn't exactly difficult in either a Pariah of Iron Leveticus or Arcanist Crew.

Johan's Relic Hammer could also be used to target the Ice Golem (who's relent) and take 1 point of damage (minimum 3 damage, reduced by 2 armor), but if the trigger went off (1 mask), the golem would push 3". The Mask trigger would be annoying, but again, it would likely be at a positive twist.

You know a Relic Hammer has :+fate:+fate against Constructs, right? So when relenting you get an even flip and will have to cheat down your damage ~60% of the time if you want minimum, so you are dumping two cards (one of which has to be a :mask), an AP from a model that hits harder, and taking damage to push Icy a modest 3". I'd suggest using a more effective pusher/placer, e.g. Angelica, Performer, Snowstorm.

---

Doing a Toss and Drag number with Mouse and Ice golem would be kind of funny. I'm seeing it as Icy throwing Mouse away, and Mouse in turn lassos Icy while still in the air and pulls him along. :P

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I've actually used Mouse and the Ice Golem as a team before, but I just had them running fairly close together and when Mouse got into lasso range of a decent target, lasso the thing & drag it into (3) Smash range, then Accomplice the Golem, and paste the target.

Of course, I've only had that combo work once, since it's a bit finicky and extremely obvious to anyone who's seen it work once. When it does go off, however...

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I like the golem if you know you will be against pandora.

Immune to paralyze, low defence isnt such a worry also moderate damage from pandora is still only 2, 1 from the attack and 1 from misery. Also blowing up in the middle of a bunch of sorrows is great!

Edited by bertmac
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I've had some decent success with the IG with Colette. Give it armor of December and use prompt for a 6" move with the armor bonus.  As long as you don't face a heavy hitter that ignores armor you can be pretty sturdy and pretty quick.  Throw in a prompt for focus or a dove for positive to damage and that 3 ap attack is very scary

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