surly Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Sure ... killing stuff isn't really the main goal of this game ... but it's a ton of fun anyway So let's discuss killing stuff! Since not many people in our area play Guild I'm curious if they're really that great at dishing out hard hits. Perdita, Lady J and Sonnia can all three hit really hard, and Frank isn't really shabby either, but I'm really interested if the faction is that damage heavy.Austringer and Witchling Stalkers are nice, but other faction bring similar fancy stuff. Speaking for myself, I play a lot of Arcanists and the can deal a huge amount of damage. Marcus and Howard both can bring 4 weak damage to the table, December Acolytes offer some great accurate range options, Joss is probably among the best tanks in the game and even supporters like Captain or Johan (who basically is a Arcanist anyway ) can dish out some serious hits. Looking at Gremlins and Outcasts for example, I know that they can really hit like trucks. Rusty Alice and Francois both can oneshot stuff with the right cards, and masters like Levi, Viks or Ophelia can all kill stuff in absurd speed. So I'm really interested if Guild is really better at killing things like the mentioned models. If so, how would a Guild "killer-list" look like for example?ThanksCheers (I thought this isn't really a guild-only topic, so I posted it here) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Yeah, Guild hit hard... but in pure output, Gremlins win by a long shot. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizuriel Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 I wouldn't say by a long shot.Master wise I think is pretty close but I would give the edge to Gremlins. Ophelia hits harder than Perdita, but Perdita is better at ignoring defenses. Wong hits as hard as Sonnia, but Sonnia will be more accurate. Lady J hits harder than Mah and Sommer hits harder than McMourning. Rest of the masters are more support based.Henchman will easily be taken by Guild (Hopkins, Judge, Ryle and Francisco can all hit liks trucks). Gremlin wise you have Francois who hits like a truck but is the definition of a glass cannon. Aside from him you only have Mancha Roja (why in my experience doesn't do much damage) and McTavish (yet to use him).It's when you get to Enforcers and Minions Gremlins really pull ahead. The heavy hitters for Guild are: Peacekeepers, Pale Rider and Executioners. Gremlins have: Gracie, Raphael. Burt, The Sow, Rooster Riders, War Pigs and even lowly Bayou Gremlins can do some good damage. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 No, they are definitely not. I'd also lean towards giving the trophy for most raw damage output to gremlins depending on criteria. It's especially true if you consider damage done to your own crew in the process! If you instead consider needing to take a punch before dealing your own damage they also have a hard time.I'd say that crews and models within factions have a wider spread than comparing between factions so there isn't much point in trying to decide which faction does the most damage as a whole. A killer crew for guild would look very different depending on what you are trying to kill. Do I need to consider armour 4+, metal gamin, def 8+, incorporeal or something else? I rarely take entire crews for killing, even in reckoning it's so much easier to just shut people in boxes or something to get some breathing room and try to get other stuff done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 So I'm really interested if Guild is really better at killing things like the mentioned models. If so, how would a Guild "killer-list" look like for example?ThanksCheersSorry if I shut your discussion down.Against arcanists and likely Joss & Langston I might just go for pineboxes with 2 death marshals. I usually pick McCabe as a leader since he is the only one able to deal with metal gamin. With his glowing saber he ignores all sorts of defenses and I then pick minions with built in rams (wastrels or wardens) or flurry (ronin springs to mind). McCabe can then throw them the saber to push into a good place, give nimble and reactivate them. I usually pick francisco since he can protect people and has good weak damage + flurry. Sometimes i box papa loco (instead of taking francisco) since the saber is bad at weak damage. Most models are going to have to look out for a counter charging nimble model doing on average 4 damage ignoring basically all the defences in the game (who also reactivates). As you van probably tell we are deep into glass-cannon territory here If I don't expect a lot of HtK or Incorporeal I like the peacekeeper. With a tome for the trigger he handles high armour and against unarmoured targets you can use an extra ram for weak 5. Francisco usually tags along for buffing whatever and adding a decent hit.If I think my enemy is going to try and swarm me in cheap models I bring Sonnia. She always has good old pops in the box and Judge/Francisco to pull her closer to the action. I prefer Franc since he can actually pull her out and buff her defence.Almost any list likes Ryle, maybe not Sonnia or Justice since they generally need someone to help them move.Hope that helped a little! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yvarre Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Sonnia is the master who can table a crew the fastest. With a papa in a pine box, Ca 9, + to attack likely, and the ability to start her blast trains 2 inches away from a model, she can have over an eight inch reach from her original target with multiple severe damages likely as she doesn't really need high cards to cheat. If an opponent's crew is remotely close to each other, she can easily kill multiple models in a single activation.Papa can also do a fair share of damage to clumped up models. I obeyed him once in an opposing crew to output 47 damage in a single AP with "take you all to hell with me."But gremlin crews, especially led by Som'er with a ram to discard or any Bayou gremlins near Lenny, can output absurd amounts of damage with reckless and dumb luck, assuming they hit, which Bigger Hat than You, Bayou Two card, and sheer volume can help with. A swarm of tiny 3 stone models all with 3 AP and a 2/4/6 damage spread can do some serious damage to crews that are extremely outactivated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomezilla Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Papa can also do a fair share of damage to clumped up models. I obeyed him once in an opposing crew to output 47 damage in a single AP with "take you all to hell with me."Unless you flipped a red joker for damage, I cannot even work out how Guild had that many models that close together. Were you playing against a Neverborn crew? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubledragon Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Yeah, Guild hit hard... but in pure output, Gremlins win by a long shot.This.No one beats Gremlins at damage output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathnard Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 (edited) When you compare factions as a whole (as opposed to looking at a few handpicked examples), Gremlins arguably still have the edge in raw damage output. Guild, however, can deal their damage without getting themselves killed in the process. Edited December 8, 2015 by Rathnard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yvarre Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 @ GnomezillaI was playing as ten thunders Lynch. Huggy cast heed my voice against papa amidst 2 or 3 Witchling Stalkers, Francisco, Sonnia, a handler, Sonnia's totem, and something else,. It forces all models within a 4" pulse of papa to succeed on a high Df duel or suffer 6 damage. The key was that the stalkers all died and created a chain reaction, killing papa who then did his damage for dying. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Moon Head Posted December 20, 2015 Report Share Posted December 20, 2015 I have to agree Gremlins pretty much pip anyone with damage output but with the drawback that they kill themselves in the process. I can't think of many 3ss minions that can dole out 8 damage almost on command (stood next to Lenny, Drunk & Reckless, double focus, cheat in a sever damage if you don't flip it. Or single focus if you're confident and still survive on 1 wound.). Guild hit hard but I think they mostly do consistent damage. Not really suit dependant, usually has built in or crit strike triggers and not much in there that is above 6 sever dmg (without combos and stoning for crit strikes rams). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagisman Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 *Stares at half finished spreadsheet of every damage output/status effect moves in game* Never... Never again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomezilla Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 On 12/21/2015 at 6:29 AM, Hagisman said: *Stares at half finished spreadsheet of every damage output/status effect moves in game* Never... Never again... GIMME! It can't be THAT bad, I got most of Guild's non-damage triggers on a 5.5"x8" single sheet, although it must be said that a lot of lines were "ram crit +1" repeated*, or "tome ignore armor" repeated. And that I print in darn near 8point font block capitals when necessary. ...ok, maybe with Gremlins/10T and their pick-a-suit-any-suit-will-do triggers included it gets that bad... *ought to change our slogan from "We Know What's Best For You"** to "All Additive Bonuses, All the Time" **gingerbread cookie for the reference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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