Anna's Dress

[Rob Lo]

So Anna's crazy Gravity Well Clockwork Dress, for example:

Gravity Well: Enemy models may not end placement effects within 8 unless that effect was generated by a bury effect, summon effect, or a model in this crew. 

 

So this obviously stops something like an enemy Francisco using Enfrentate a Mi! to place himself within Anna's aura. Does it also stop an enemy Lust from using Now Kiss! to place a model in Anna's crew within the aura?

So is it, enemy models can't be placed but the aura says nothing about placing models friendly to Anna, or is it enemies to Anna can't do anything that causes a place, no matter the target, because that is them doing a 'place effect'?

Our local campaign seems to have taken both Anna and Lust into their hearts, and the ladies aren't playing nicely with each other.

[Myyrä]

Anna's aura does not prevent placing models in her crew inside that aura, no matter who controls the placement effect. Thus it does not work against Now Kiss!.

[solkan]

I wondered for a few minutes why the rules didn't say "cannot be placed", but then I remembered some of the rules messes that Warmachine/Hordes ran into when it had some models that can't be placed, combined with inconvenient uses of the word "place" in things like deployment.  So I can see someone drafting "Enemy models cannot be placed within 8 ..." and suddenly realizing "Hold on, that's going to prohibit unburying and deployment in addition to regular placement effects."

That's a good enough reason for the slightly strange phrasing, if you ask me. 

 

[Rob Lo]

 Anna's abilities don't just say that enemy models can't end places within 8, it specifically says they can't end placement effects,or push effects, or movement effects

Pg. 38 Big Rulebook: If the Attacker wins the duel, the effects of the Attack are resolved, usually by dealing damage to the Defender. 

Thus, in a Peacebringer Blade attack, the effect is the damage, and the source of the effect is the model performing the action. 

Pg. 51 BRB Callout Box: Placement Effects - Some effects will call for a model to be placed in a location. 

Thus, just like damage is an effect, or giving slow is an effect, places are an effect. 

 

The effect of being placed is coming from the acting model, Lust or whoever, just like a Rotten Belle is producing a move effect when they lure, or Rasputina is producing a blast effect when she attacks. We don't say the model being damaged by Rasputina is doing damage. We don't say a model being slowed by Chiaki is creating a slow effect; Chiaki is.

In no way should we be saying the model being acted on is producing the effect. If Lust or the Belle attempts to end that effect within that aura, they cannot. 

. 

Edited September 28, 2015 by Rob Lo

[Khro]

"Player A owns Lust. Player B owns Lovelace. Player A uses Lust's "Now Kiss" to move some of Player B's models into Lovelace's aura (who is owned by Player B). 

From my reading, it appears clear that any of player B's models can end their movement within the aura no matter what the source. There is nothing in the ability about how they are being moved or placed. The only distinction is Friendly model or Enemy models."

 

Lusts ability says that an enemy model is placed into base contact with another enemy model within 8 and LOS. The placement effect is generated from the model that was effected, not lust. Lusts "Now Kiss!" Seems to get around Anna's aura because the models effected are not "enemy models" of Lovelace, they're friendly to her. Those friendly models are the ones being placed.

 

However, Lusts (0) that can target her own models, which could NOT let the model end within 8" of Anna.

 

The way I read it, Lust gets around Anna's Aura, simply because the placement effect is effecting Anna's friendly models, causing them to move. 

Edited September 27, 2015 by Khro
Example added to top.

[santaclaws01]

 Anna's abilities don't just say that enemy models can't end places within 8, it specifically says they can't end placement effects,or push effects, or movement effects

Pg. 38 Big Rulebook: If the Attacker wins the duel, the effects of the Attack are resolved, usually by dealing damage to the Defender. 

Thus, in a Peacebringer Blade attack, the effect is the damage, and the source of the effect is the model performing the action. 

Pg. 51 BRB Callout Box: Placement Effects - Some effects will call for a model to be placed in a location. 

Thus, just like damage is an effect, or giving slow is an effect, places are an effect. 

 

The effect of being placed is coming from the acting model, Lust or whoever, just like a Rotten Belle is producing a move effect when they lure, or Rasputina is producing a blast effect when she attacks. We don't say the model being damaged by Rasputina is doing damage. We don't say a model being slowed by Chiaki is creating a slow effect; Chiaki is.

In no way should we be saying the model being acted on is producing the effect. If Lust or the Belle attempts to end that effect within that aura, they cannot. 

. 

"Enemy models may not end placement effects" does not reference those generated by enemy models, but those which act on enemy models. If it was talking about placement effects which are generated by enemy models then this part of the ability "unless that effect was generated by ... a model in this crew" is completely uneeded. Why say effects generated by your own models aren't affected by this ability if the ability only affected placement effects generated by enemy models?

[santaclaws01]

 Anna's abilities don't just say that enemy models can't end places within 8, it specifically says they can't end placement effects,or push effects, or movement effects

Pg. 38 Big Rulebook: If the Attacker wins the duel, the effects of the Attack are resolved, usually by dealing damage to the Defender. 

Thus, in a Peacebringer Blade attack, the effect is the damage, and the source of the effect is the model performing the action. 

Pg. 51 BRB Callout Box: Placement Effects - Some effects will call for a model to be placed in a location. 

Thus, just like damage is an effect, or giving slow is an effect, places are an effect. 

 

The effect of being placed is coming from the acting model, Lust or whoever, just like a Rotten Belle is producing a move effect when they lure, or Rasputina is producing a blast effect when she attacks. We don't say the model being damaged by Rasputina is doing damage. We don't say a model being slowed by Chiaki is creating a slow effect; Chiaki is.

In no way should we be saying the model being acted on is producing the effect. If Lust or the Belle attempts to end that effect within that aura, they cannot. 

. 

"Enemy models may not end placement effects" does not reference those generated by enemy models, but those which act on enemy models. If it was talking about placement effects which are generated by enemy models then this part of the ability "unless that effect was generated by ... a model in this crew" is completely uneeded. Why say effects generated by your own models aren't affected by this ability if the ability only affected placement effects generated by enemy models?

I thought the same, but there could be the situation where an enemy uses the ability on an allies card.  Also, the ally could be mind controlled. So the wording isn't useless. 

That doesn't change  anything. An enemy model copying an ability is still an enemy model  generating it an a friendly model being Obeyed to perform an action  is still a friendly model generating it.

My point remains, if it was talking about effects generated by enemy models it would say that, instead of just enemy models and then go on to exclude effects generated by friendly models, which wouldn't need to be mentioned if the ability was only referring to effects generated by enemy models. 

[Philosfr]

The key word is the first part of Anna's aura. It's only Enemy models that may not end a place effect. Lust is placing a Friendly model, not an enemy, so Gravity Well has no effect.

(What Myyra said, but I misread Myyra's sentence at first so thought I'd clarify for others who misread it the same way I did)

Edited September 26, 2015 by Philosfr

[Leoneth]

I believe that this is the intended effect.  Even if you interpreted it the other way, how would that get around lusts ability?  It would just mean she would have to be outside of the gravity well aura to use it as she would then not end it within 8 inches, even if a friendly modelmodel(to Anna) would.

[Sannop]

The way I am reading it is that an enemy model, Lust, cannot end a placement effect (Now Kiss) within 8 inches of Anna.  Since Now Kiss is the reason for the placement effect, Anna's ability should prevent the placement of that model (or any model using her ability)..  

I agree.  As written the placement effect is being generated by an enemy model, even when it is an ally that is placed.

[Sannop]

 Anna's abilities don't just say that enemy models can't end places within 8, it specifically says they can't end placement effects,or push effects, or movement effects

Pg. 38 Big Rulebook: If the Attacker wins the duel, the effects of the Attack are resolved, usually by dealing damage to the Defender. 

Thus, in a Peacebringer Blade attack, the effect is the damage, and the source of the effect is the model performing the action. 

Pg. 51 BRB Callout Box: Placement Effects - Some effects will call for a model to be placed in a location. 

Thus, just like damage is an effect, or giving slow is an effect, places are an effect. 

 

The effect of being placed is coming from the acting model, Lust or whoever, just like a Rotten Belle is producing a move effect when they lure, or Rasputina is producing a blast effect when she attacks. We don't say the model being damaged by Rasputina is doing damage. We don't say a model being slowed by Chiaki is creating a slow effect; Chiaki is.

In no way should we be saying the model being acted on is producing the effect. If Lust or the Belle attempts to end that effect within that aura, they cannot. 

. 

"Enemy models may not end placement effects" does not reference those generated by enemy models, but those which act on enemy models. If it was talking about placement effects which are generated by enemy models then this part of the ability "unless that effect was generated by ... a model in this crew" is completely uneeded. Why say effects generated by your own models aren't affected by this ability if the ability only affected placement effects generated by enemy models?

I thought the same, but there could be the situation where an enemy uses the ability on an allies card.  Also, the ally could be mind controlled. So the wording isn't useless. 

[Arli]

The way I am reading it is that an enemy model, Lust, cannot end a placement effect (Now Kiss) within 8 inches of Anna.  Since Now Kiss is the reason for the placement effect, Anna's ability should prevent the placement of that model (or any model using her ability)..  

Edited September 27, 2015 by Arli
clarification