Collodi, Zoraida and Luciius - too similar?

[Nical]

Hehe, Since when do Austringers NOT need focus? Their dmg profile screams focus and their attack has a doubled range when focused... There is a reason they are specifically disallowed from being issued commands to but allowed to be commanded by his presence and that is because basically their whole thing is focus.  I'm not even sure any other model in the game has a personal clause preventing just that model from using an ability, please correct me if I'm wrong. If Lucius could issue commands to Austringers he would probably be one of the most hated masters in the game (not sure if he would be strong still but hated for sure).

In Wave 2 beta, Lucius could use Issue Command to Austringers. The combo was strong.

 

[Nical]

My point though, and the point of the thread, is that lucius and Collodi have a LOT of overlapping ground.  So much so that it I ask the question: does a neverborn player need both?

Take Collodi & Some other faction puppets(Effigies & Mannequin). I like Lucius, but Fated Collodi is usually better than Lucius. For Example, Collodi can place scheme markers well by Mannequin and/or Shadow Effigy. But Lucius is not bad, just Collodi is better. 

So I play both.

[Ludvig]

Hehe, Since when do Austringers NOT need focus? Their dmg profile screams focus and their attack has a doubled range when focused... There is a reason they are specifically disallowed from being issued commands to but allowed to be commanded by his presence and that is because basically their whole thing is focus.  I'm not even sure any other model in the game has a personal clause preventing just that model from using an ability, please correct me if I'm wrong. If Lucius could issue commands to Austringers he would probably be one of the most hated masters in the game (not sure if he would be strong still but hated for sure).

In Wave 2 beta, Lucius could use Issue Command to Austringers. The combo was strong.

 

I remember the combo being really strong but I don't think it would have broken the game and made Lucius so strong that he won every match ever. The problem is that attacks getting to target you no matter what doesn't lead to fun games, I think it was taken away for player enjoyment rather than balance (which is probably good).

[Joel]

So the follow up question is: does the faction suffer by having nearly half of its masters overlap so much? I can think of another faction that does this really.

[Vorschlag]

The Austringers trigger is a part of the problem, I've seen that nearly empty an opponents hand once at the start of turn two, the guild player was cheating the flips but focus makes you less likely to need to...especially when your shooting on 7.
Being stripped of cards at important times is often worse than taking a few wounds.

 

[Nical]

So the follow up question is: does the faction suffer by having nearly half of its masters overlap so much? I can think of another faction that does this really.

No. Neverborn masters are at least good, but just some masters are better.

[Dumb Luck]

So the follow up question is: does the faction suffer by having nearly half of its masters overlap so much? I can think of another faction that does this really.

No, because you're Neverborn. Lilith, Pandora, Dreamer and Lynch (Collodi too) are all very, very strong Masters. Stop being daft, Henry.

 

[Joel]

Yes, but the faction has 5 masters and 2 whatevers.  All others have 7 masters who all have individual roles.  Just seems a shame to me at the moment. I'll go and cry into my trophies.

[Ludvig]

Yes, but the faction has 5 masters and 2 whatevers.  All others have 7 masters who all have individual roles.  Just seems a shame to me at the moment. I'll go and cry into my trophies.

A lot of factions have masters that are similar at a glance but play differently. Lucius is in some ways similar to Collodi but he has about the same similarities with Hoffman in the guild. Collodi on the other hand can be played as a tesla coil (from Red Alert) with his minions used as glorified batteries and control the enemy crew which is a lot different. Collodi also has very unique defensive abilities. Zoraida has entirely different levels of control over the enemy than Lucius and can make the enemy crew tear themselves apart which is super different from buffing your own crew so she differs from Collodi there.

In ressers you have a lot of masters centered on summoning and buffing minions which is basically the same thing (but really not when you go into depth). A lot of the outcast masters don't help their buddies but just do damage in different ways but you don't say Levi, Misaki and the Vics are the same.

I think you have high demands for individuality, the faction is only suffering if one counter invalidates so many master and lists that it's an auto-include and nothing can counter it.

[Dumb Luck]

Yes, but the faction has 5 masters and 2 whatevers.  All others have 7 masters who all have individual roles.  Just seems a shame to me at the moment. I'll go and cry into my trophies.

Well, from my experience I can tell you that isn't the case. But that isn't taking into account personal taste. There might be crossover but Person A might like a different one of those Masters to Person B.

Give me a sec to get my primary school swimming trophy and I'll join you in the Weepening.

Edited September 7, 2015 by Dumb Luck

[Adran]

So the follow up question is: does the faction suffer by having nearly half of its masters overlap so much? I can think of another faction that does this really.

 Ressurectionists has Nicodem, Kirai and Molly that are largely focused on Summoning. 

Sonnia, Justice and Perdita are largely focused on being able to kill enemies even in cover. ( I might even go as far that with Perditas push she can join the other two in being able to attack models that are out of sight).