Who to use and when

[Dumb Luck]

Yes. Yes he is. Also solid in Headhunter.

He'd be cool for lifting up markers and stopping other people but he's 10ss that can't actually kill anything. Hm.

The rest of a Gremlin crew should have no trouble with that though. Imagine he is all of your chaff models, but in one model as opposed to several.

[Vorschlag]

I tend to see Somer as more of the jack of all trades, he summons, has support buffs for his crew and can hand out a lot of damage.
His upgrades allow him to focus on being a Green tide generator or to take a heavy pig presence on the field.

Zoraida being an amazing board control master I field as a counter to certain masters, boards (terrain) and have found with the right crew selection she can be just as effective in killing games as scheme control.

These two are probably my most played masters across all factions and the masters I have the most success with.

Ophelia feels very "point and click" as someone else commented, she gets the job done and I always carry her with me for scheme pools that cry out for a murderous rampage.

Brew Master I've only had one game with which he and fingers ruthlessly dominated, he feels very scheme and strategy dependent and lost his opportunity to be put on the table at my last tournament when I realized I was face Kiria.

Haven't used Ulix or Wong yet, not getting Mah Tucket.

[Omenbringer]

I tend to see Somer as more of the jack of all trades, he summons, has support buffs for his crew and can hand out a lot of damage.
His upgrades allow him to focus on being a Green tide generator or to take a heavy pig presence on the field.

Pretty much this. Som'er is likely our most versatile Master, he can be run in so many effective configurations and adapt during the game if kitted for it.

[Math Mathonwy]

I think that Somer, Wong, Zoraida and, to a bit lesser extent, Ophelia are all very versatile and can do well in any Strategy. Still, I do agree with the OP that, e.g., Somer is very good Reconnoiter and certainly would be my pick over, say, Wong, if going for maximum efficiency (which is naturally the point of these sorts of lists).

As for the list, I essentially agree on all accounts. Some minor things like I do think that Ophelia and Somer can be just as good at Squatters as Zoraida but I don't think that counts as disagreeing.

[Dumb Luck]

I think that Somer, Wong, Zoraida and, to a bit lesser extent, Ophelia are all very versatile and can do well in any Strategy. Still, I do agree with the OP that, e.g., Somer is very good Reconnoiter and certainly would be my pick over, say, Wong, if going for maximum efficiency (which is naturally the point of these sorts of lists).

As for the list, I essentially agree on all accounts. Some minor things like I do think that Ophelia and Somer can be just as good at Squatters as Zoraida but I don't think that counts as disagreeing.

I do like it when people agree. Also, +1 to the Kin who mentioned Zoraida as a counter pick. Couldn't agree more.

[Flat Tooth]

In terms of picking masters/lists/strats do you guys have any insights into your thinking when playing against X faction? As in, I imagine I don't really want to play Somer summoning spam if I see a Lilith across the table so I don't just give him easy targets to grow his nephelim with etc.

 

Thanks for all the insight so far, everyone! It's been really helpful <3 

[Tiny]

I wouldnt say somer summoning spam is bad against lilith. She should still be super careful to peak her head out. You can run a bayou up and then blast off it with the slop hauler onto lilith then she's at df 4 with 10 wds so basically in tons of trouble when looking down the barrels of 10+ bayous. Granted the difference between an average lilith player and top tier is huge when it comes to lilith.

For me generally vs certain factions it'll be:

Guild:

Merris incase of sonnia + Either mctavish for his mobile cover or handing out a few hide in teh mud upgrades to key pieces 

Neverborn + resser

Liquid bravery + mctavish with remove conditions if im bringing a more elite crew otherwise ill just wear the occassional paralyses

 

Arcanists:

Merris just incase they pull out raspy

 

Those are the main factions ill put elements into my lists based solely on the faction and not schemes/strat. 

Edited September 10, 2015 by Tiny

[Vorschlag]

I take zoraida against resser summoners to neutralise hanged, she's especially useful against Kirai as you can keep Ikiryo out of the game for longer by focusing damaged and conditions on the hem target.

I also feel her obey mechanic makes her a functional counter to never born due to wp and damage spread.

But Zoraida and Somer are my go to masters so this could just be my comfort zone.

Ophelia's paired weapon positive flips would help in seeing off cover based models so waldgiest, stitched together, mei feng etc.

Wong or Ophelia, even Somer can generate enough blasts to deal with bubble / death star crews such as Pandora, Collodi, Brew MasterMaster etc.

Yet to have the chance to run Ulix.

Think brew master is more scheme and strategy focused than counter to master xyz.

 

[Dogmantra]

vs resurrectionists I will seriously consider at least a couple of moon shinobis since so many of them have hard to wound, forcing them to dump cards so you don't get your damage flips is very satisfying... of course, actually hitting those triple positive damage flips is even better. And even if you never get them, it's almost impossible to get a negative damage flip vs an enemy with hard to wound as a Moon Shinobi.

The fact that moon shinobis are like my favourite model rules-wise probably plays into it

Arcanists seem to have a lot of armour so a Lightning Bug or two to get some decent non-1 damage against them is good. Plus lightning bugs are nifty!

And I only just read their stats properly the other day and am only 1 turn into a game with them, but Bayou Gators are immune to Wp duels on their activation. Probably worth taking a couple vs neverborn or other terrifying-heavy crews? I'm not running them with Som'er in my current game, but he seems really strong. Give the gators a crow with a skeeter, then Bigger Hat on your opponent,and they get their Swallow Whole trigger - instant kill unless the target discards two cards.

EDIT: aww, I knew it was too good to be true, you have to deal severe damage to get swallow whole :c still, skeeters + gator is cool if only because you can either give them rams for better damage flips or crows for a paralyse. Maybe previous trick should be paired with a double focusing Gator in order for either a straight or positive damage flip? actually nvm do it like dis is only pig/gremlin models, that'll learn me

Edited September 11, 2015 by Dogmantra

[Flat Tooth]

Thanks for the insights, guys!

[Dumb Luck]

I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be taking any form of summoning Som'er vs Lilth. Not only can Lilth be played very well very easily, but any Lilth player worth their salt will know just to nuke the summoning site from orbit as soon as possible.

[scottb]

This has been really helpful but I wonder if people could give their thoughts on Master/crew selection if they were limited to Ophelia and Som'er only? That's the only two Masters I have and struggling to know which to go with and/or which models to include in the crew. However, I guess it also depends a lot on the faction being faced but at present I wouldn't know which of the two to go to (and again which models to include in the crew) no matter what faction I was facing - so any help on that front too would be useful. I've read Pull My Finger, but feel it lacks this kind of detail.

[Omenbringer]

My standard Som'er list is:

Som'er

-Family Tree

-Encouragement

-Can O'beans or Liquid Bravery or Ya'll Watch This (depending on opposed faction, Strategy, or Scheme options)

Skeeter x2

Slop Hauler

Bayou Gremlin x3

Piglet x 2

31 SS with plenty left over for other choices. My favorites are:

Lenny

-I'll Love It and Pet It... (especially if hiring the Pigapult)

and/or

Francois Lacroix

-Ya'll WatchThis (if not on Som'er)

and/or

Pigapult

 

[scottb]

On 10/10/2015 at 0:17 AM, Omenbringer said:

My standard Som'er list is:

Som'er

-Family Tree

-Encouragement

-Can O'beans or Liquid Bravery or Ya'll Watch This (depending on opposed faction, Strategy, or Scheme options)

Skeeter x2

Slop Hauler

Bayou Gremlin x3

Piglet x 2

31 SS with plenty left over for other choices. My favorites are:

Lenny

-I'll Love It and Pet It... (especially if hiring the Pigapult)

and/or

Francois Lacroix

-Ya'll WatchThis (if not on Som'er)

and/or

Pigapult

 

Working off of these suggestions for a beginning of a list, I am looking for a bit feedback on a possible list for a game in a few days. It will be Recon with Break Through, Bodyguard, Plant Evidence, Entourage, Line in the Sand.

I am thinking of taking:

Plant Evidence and Entourage/Bodyguard

Somer - Liquid Bravery

Sammy - Family Tree (being the focus on Entourage/Bodyguard)

Skeeter

Pigapult

Lenny - Love & Pet

Slop Hauler

3 Bayous

Moon Shinobi

I dropped the piglets and a few things to fit in Sammy and the Moonie. I feel this allows Somer to be freed up to do other things, but still potentially summon two gremlins and two piglets per turn depending on the cards. The Moonie helps deal out some damage, especially on the hard to wound stuff. Thoughts/feedback? Too many specialist types? Am I better to go with Bodyguard or Entourage?

[scottb]

To follow up my own post, the list seemed to go well. Probably should have won instead of drawn, but forgot to ensure recon for turn 2 so lost a point there. Also, bodyguard would have worked better than entourage with Sammy, as I likely could have kept her alive for two turns to get full 3 points, and keep Sammy actively involved rather than lobbing to the other end of the table. But freeing up Somer is really useful as he is so dangerous, especially with Lenny backing him up!

Oh, I also swapped out the Moon Shinobi for a stuffed piglet, mosquito and 2 extra SS. This helped with turn one pigapult shooting, various mosi tricks and spare SS.

[scottb]

Anyone any recommendations for a Master/Crew when facing Ten Thunders in a Turf War with Protect Territory, Bodyguard, Make them suffer, Plant Evidence?

[Dogmantra]

19 minutes ago, scottb said:

Anyone any recommendations for a Master/Crew when facing Ten Thunders in a Turf War with Protect Territory, Bodyguard, Make them suffer, Plant Evidence?

IMO your easiest schemes there are Protect Territory and Plant Evidence. I'd go for Merris with a couple of Bayou Gremlins as backup for those schemes, then focus the rest of the crew on Turf War. Som'er is always good but I'd probably not go summony because of Make them Suffer. Probably like Burt, Francois, etc. To specifically counter 10T, McTavish and Sparks are neat, McTavish stopping people from taking Focus helps turn Shenlong down a bit (as well as other models who get extra benefit from it) and Sparks stops all their support models targeting friendlies (no giving a 5" push + fast to two models a turn from Sensei Yu)

[scottb]

40 minutes ago, Dogmantra said:

IMO your easiest schemes there are Protect Territory and Plant Evidence. I'd go for Merris with a couple of Bayou Gremlins as backup for those schemes, then focus the rest of the crew on Turf War. Som'er is always good but I'd probably not go summony because of Make them Suffer. Probably like Burt, Francois, etc. To specifically counter 10T, McTavish and Sparks are neat, McTavish stopping people from taking Focus helps turn Shenlong down a bit (as well as other models who get extra benefit from it) and Sparks stops all their support models targeting friendlies (no giving a 5" push + fast to two models a turn from Sensei Yu)

Sounds like a lot of support models. How many SS is Sparks? I don't have him but could get him in time for the game. If still similar to what is on Pull My Finger (https://pullmyfinger.wikispaces.com/M2E+Sparks) there seems to quite a few useful utilities to him.

[scottb]

I just can't see how to ensure I score from Turf War each turn but prevent opponent scoring from Make Them Suffer. To my mind (with limited experience) I need enough models to get points from Turf War (i.e. cheap minions) OR I get tough models and hope to survive long enough (though unlikely) to score with Turf War - one seems more likely to score from strategy but give away points, another seems less likely to score from strategy but deny points to opponent. I just can decide!

[Dogmantra]

On 20/03/2017 at 10:48 AM, scottb said:

Sounds like a lot of support models. How many SS is Sparks? I don't have him but could get him in time for the game. If still similar to what is on Pull My Finger (https://pullmyfinger.wikispaces.com/M2E+Sparks) there seems to quite a few useful utilities to him.

he's 7 stones and in this case you'd be picking him up for his aura that stops enemy models targeting models friendly to them. It's a gamble that could pay off big time if you end up against Shenlong, Sensei Yu, the Emissary, or McCabe (and other supports I'm probably forgetting - I only play about 1/3 of 10T) because you can deny all those pushes and handing out of fast.

In terms of the others, it's not really that much spent on support. For scoring, Merris is likely to get you 3 points on her own, potentially if she goes unhunted down she could score both full plant evidence and protect territory on her own fairly easily, and she's only 6ss. McTavish is less support and more a useful hard hitter who has a somewhat niche ability that will come up more vs Ten Thunders due to the abundance of wanting to take focus. He's less of a gamble than Sparks because he still offers a great gun and good melee if it turns out they're not bothered about focusing anyway, while Sparks could go to waste.

2 hours ago, scottb said:

I just can't see how to ensure I score from Turf War each turn but prevent opponent scoring from Make Them Suffer. To my mind (with limited experience) I need enough models to get points from Turf War (i.e. cheap minions) OR I get tough models and hope to survive long enough (though unlikely) to score with Turf War - one seems more likely to score from strategy but give away points, another seems less likely to score from strategy but deny points to opponent. I just can decide!

Definitely beefier models imo. You only need two to score Turf War and you can pretty easily keep, say, Raphael and Burt alive at the edge while they take shots, with a Slop Hauler behind to keep them healed up. That slop hauler can sit up to ~10" away from the centre if need be, so they're going to be fairly safe, and they can heal through walls etc so you can potentially position them totally out of LoS while letting them still contribute. The other option is to be silly and take a single Peon or Minion and just hide it in the corner. Doesn't work so well with Gremlins because you're then giving up use of your totem and some amazing models like Slop Haulers and Lightning Bugs.

[cfrag]

I once used sparks with a pigapult vs a hoff crew. I used him on turn 1 and 2 to give pigapult fast, then threw it right into the middle of hoffs bubble with the pigapult. It was definitely an unexpected move for my adversary and it screwed his plans for turn 2 (he really had to kill sparks before going on with his plans), but it's needless to say that sparks didn't live to see turn 3. I still think this can be a good use of him vs certain crews, since turn 2 is usually the most important turn in the game

[scottb]

Thanks Dogmantra

19 hours ago, Dogmantra said:

she could score both full plant evidence and protect territory on her own fairly easily

Quick question on Merris. Her "Bombs Away" tactical action - can it be used to drop scheme marker with 4" of another scheme marker (which usually isn't allowed) since it's not an Interact action?

 

Based on what you've suggested and from another thread here's a possible crew, thoughts? The idea being to have models that can push enemies out of the centre circle.

Mah - Lead Lined Apron (2)

Lucky Emissary (10) - Conflux of Bushwhacking (0)

Mancha Roja (10)

Merris (6) - scheme marker

McTavish (10) - range attack plus can limit TT buffs via Focus

Sparks (7) - for nullifying TT pushes/buffs

Slop Hauler (5) - the only minion, too much of a risk?

TOTAL 50SS

[Four_N_Six]

17 minutes ago, scottb said:

Thanks Dogmantra

Quick question on Merris. Her "Bombs Away" tactical action - can it be used to drop scheme marker with 4" of another scheme marker (which usually isn't allowed) since it's not an Interact action?

 

Based on what you've suggested and from another thread here's a possible crew, thoughts? The idea being to have models that can push enemies out of the centre circle.

Mah - Lead Lined Apron (2)

Lucky Emissary (10) - Conflux of Bushwhacking (0)

Mancha Roja (10)

Merris (6) - scheme marker

McTavish (10) - range attack plus can limit TT buffs via Focus

Sparks (7) - for nullifying TT pushes/buffs

Slop Hauler (5) - the only minion, too much of a risk?

TOTAL 50SS

Yes.

 

Just need to be careful.  One of my biggest downfalls is putting too much onto one model and then having it all fall apart.

I've mentioned my Zipp game Vs. Mei Feng on the forums before.  In that particular game, I had most of my points riding on the First Mate.  I was planning to leave him back and protected most of the game.  My opponent assumed (incorrectly) that First Mate had the pianos upgrade on, so Mei Feng came rocketing at him and he was dead turn 1.  The upgrade was on a Skeeter.  Special circumstance of course, but point is that I didn't have him overextended, and my points were on his scaly shoulders, so I ended up losing that game.  Since then I try to have a back-up model if I can so I'm not scrambling for how to score points if something like that happens again.

[scottb]

Yeah, good point! I think it's possible to flip most of the models listed towards the other schemes, it is just that Merris is so good at that one - but I am aware of how easily Merris can fall...I am not sure she has ever survived a whole game for me!

[Dogmantra]

10 hours ago, scottb said:

Thanks Dogmantra

Quick question on Merris. Her "Bombs Away" tactical action - can it be used to drop scheme marker with 4" of another scheme marker (which usually isn't allowed) since it's not an Interact action?

You're right, but the action itself has a 2" restriction so you can't put one on top, but that restriction only applies to taking interact actions; triggers or other actions that place a marker can go right on top of another scheme marker if it doesn't have a restriction in the text.