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Blocking Hannahs "Void Marker"


DXXXVIII
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When Hannah buries stuff with her void record, places the void marker (30mm) and then walks on top of the void marker with her 50mm base... what happens at the end of the turn?

"Place a 30mm Void marker in base contact with target model. The target is then buried. At the end of the Turn, unbury the target in base contact with the Void Marker, then remove the void marker from play. This Action cannot be taken while a Void Marker is in play"

So... what happens?

1, Target just unburies in base contact with hannah because shes blocking the Void Marker and the target cant unbury in base contact with the Void marker?

2. poor dude has to w8 another turn to get unburied?

3. the unbury effect doesnt come to effect but the void marker gets removed anyways? burying the target permanently?

Edited by DXXXVIII
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Void Record: At the end of the turn you: (a) unbury the model in base contact with the void marker, then (b) remove the marker.

Automatically happens at the end of the turn. You perform (a), and then you perform (b) regardless of the result of (a).

So if at the end of the turn the model is killed while buried or is unable to unbury in base with the marker, the marker is still removed.

Now you see me...: After taking damage you: discard a scheme marker to (a) reduce damage to 0, then (b) place within 6"

Can only happen after you've taken damage and declared the trigger, you have to discard a scheme marker in order to be able to do (a), and then you do (b) regardless of the result of (a). If your opponent flips a black joker for damage you can't do the trigger. If you get hit with an attack that does damage that can't be reduced then (a) is unable to happen, but you are still able to do (b).

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Think of the "then" as if they said "and," however the then just indicates the order of resolution.  

For example, with Collette, its "discard a scheme marker to reduce damage and place her within six inches." With Hannah it is "unbury the model in base contact with the void marker and remove the void marker."

The way they phrase makes it a little unclear, however some abilities require it to specify an order like Hannah's to avoid ordering shenanigans, and they probably word them all this way for simplicity.

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Once the buried model is placed in the deployment zone wouldn't the void marker go away?  That's how my group has been playing it.  Maybe I'm misunderstanding Aos's post.

Depends on your interpretation of "then". Does it indicate a condition? The model wasn't placed in contact with the marker, so the marker isn't removed. Or does it indicate a sequence? Remove the marker after you placed the model in its deployment zone.

I'd go with the latter.

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Depends on your interpretation of "then". Does it indicate a condition? The model wasn't placed in contact with the marker, so the marker isn't removed. Or does it indicate a sequence? Remove the marker after you placed the model in its deployment zone.

I'd go with the latter.

Conditional clauses seem to be formulated in Malifaux as do something to do something else.

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hmm interesting, so I don't need to discard a scheme marker to place Colette in 6" with her masks deffensive trigger.

Afeter suffering dmage discard a target scheme marker within 1" to reduce the damage to 0, then place this model anywhere within 6".

Nice.

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1- unbury it in this way, then discard the void marker.

2- discard a scheme marker to reduce to 0, then place this model within 6".

You don't need to discard the scheme marker to place her within 6" as you don't need to unbury the model to remove the void marker.

Thats the point, right?

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If you use "then" and "to" as suggested earlier Colette would have to discard the scheme marker if she wants to reduce the damage but not if she only wants the place effect.

Maybe, but if she declares the trigger, she has to discard the Marker... I don't see a decision on her part.

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It would seem to indicate that if there weren't any scheme markers within 6" of Colette, she would still suffer the full damage, but could still place within 6". If there was, though, one would have to be discarded.

I came across a similar situation with McCabe recently, where he can use Take This to push a model 4" even without having any upgrades to pass off, but if he has one that he can pass, he must pass it.

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If you use "then" and "to" as suggested earlier Colette would have to discard the scheme marker if she wants to reduce the damage but not if she only wants the place effect.

The placement is not conditional on reducing damage. Both the placement and the reduction are conditional on discarding the scheme marker. You still get the placement even if you can't reduce damage as long as you discarded the marker.

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"Affter suffering damage discard a target scheme marker within 1" to reduce the damage to 0, then place this model anywhere within 6".

"Place a 30mm Void marker in base contact with target model. The target is then buried. At the end of the Turn, unbury the target in base contact with the Void Marker, then remove the void marker from play. This Action cannot be taken while a Void Marker is in play"

Can't follow your point, sorry.

I just want to know how to rule the "then", but don't know why is different in each sentence.

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The placement is not conditional on reducing damage. Both the placement and the reduction are conditional on discarding the scheme marker. You still get the placement even if you can't reduce damage as long as you discarded the marker.

I agree that that is the intent (as far I as I can tell). But the use of "then" and "to" doesn't seem to be entirely consistent across all abilities.

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"Affter suffering damage discard a target scheme marker within 1" to reduce the damage to 0, then place this model anywhere within 6".

"Place a 30mm Void marker in base contact with target model. The target is then buried. At the end of the Turn, unbury the target in base contact with the Void Marker, then remove the void marker from play. This Action cannot be taken while a Void Marker is in play"

Can't follow your point, sorry.

I just want to know how to rule the "then", but don't know why is different in each sentence.

"Then" is similar to "and" except it also tells you about the order things should be resolved in. Might not work everywhere, but sure works with these two abilities.

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"Affter suffering damage discard a target scheme marker within 1" to reduce the damage to 0, then place this model anywhere within 6".

"Place a 30mm Void marker in base contact with target model. The target is then buried. At the end of the Turn, unbury the target in base contact with the Void Marker, then remove the void marker from play. This Action cannot be taken while a Void Marker is in play"

Can't follow your point, sorry.

I just want to know how to rule the "then", but don't know why is different in each sentence.

Why do you think, the "then" is used differently?

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That's the point, if "then" means the same in both sentences, and we use it as you said on the Hanna's action, then Colette may place without discarding the scheme marker. 

My opinion ofcourse. 

No... the then just orders things in time: You discard a Scheme marker to "reduce damage and then place". It thus does the same thing it does in Hannah's ability.

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