Wave 3 Gremlins

[CarcerDrex]

Last time I was on the forum there was a separate section for Wave 3, so this might be in the wrong place if so I apologise

I was just curious as to what people think of the New Gremlins, specifically Sparks & Mechanized Porkchop as I use Mei Feng. Though am looking at getting Wongs crew when it's out as introduction to Gremlins

[AverageBoss]

Wave 3 was only up on the forums during public beta.

Last week both the wave 3 book and a ton of other things (including all the remaining master boxes) were available at Gencon and at the web store. So you should be able to find Wongs box floating around, though its general release has not yet happened (in fact he does not even have a date yet).

 

There were some changes between the final beta files and the finalized printed forms. Actually, some models completely changed their very concept, such as the basilisk becoming a giant cyborg scorpion called the Scorpius. As for Sparks he has a situational crazy good disruption aura. And I would run the Porkchop in a Mei Feng crew with Toshiro, so that I could summon a Komainu  every turn (something else released at Gencon).

[PolishSausage]

the gremlin emissary is very situational. Some Gremlin master nearly require you to run a specific sub-type of model to get the best benefit so you have to skip the non-gremlin non-pig construct. Similarly we already have a lot of key centerpiece models that are becoming list staples, and we do not lack damage or mobility in gremlins as such some of the new releases are only situational replacement, not a direct "better" option.

 

As mentioned above sparks has some great utility and advantages that if used correctly can mess people up, then again you can take francois or rafael or remi in blow people up in an activation instead of stagnating them with non-damage auras.

 

Time will tell how well he can mess people up, in my case I am always struggling to not take gremlin staples who excel at so many different roles.

[Dumb Luck]

Gluttony coud have some uses, Survivors have been something I've been after for a while (durability) - if they live up to that, we'll see. The Emissary has potential for massive lulz. 

 

Too early to say though really. Can't see any making that much of a dent in the current Gremeta.

[solkan]

If you use Mei Feng, I think it's pretty much obligatory to get Sparks and the mechanized pig, just because of the Foundry tag.  So just give in and get all of the wave three gremlins.

[Vorschlag]

The new foundry gremlins are the only reason I am getting Mei Feng as one of my arcanist options.

I've wanted to see a gremlin bodger since I first picked up Gremlins, now I have an excuse to run an almost entirely Gremlin and Pig Arcanist crew I plan to take full advantage of that.

Definitely putting Mei Feng on a bayou base, not sure what other changes I'll need to make to her though.

[AverageBoss]

Definitely putting Mei Feng on a bayou base, not sure what other changes I'll need to make to her though.

Not much. Just make it look like shes smashing / kicking through a dock / bridge / pier.

[Math Mathonwy]

Sparks's Aura is huge and it stops models from targeting themselves. It can really, really mess up some models and crews. Still, of course his competition as a 7-Stone Gremlin Henchman is fierce. The Mech Pig looks good. Otherwise they look funny but not top tier stuff. Survivors are particularly lackluster.

[zFiend]

Sparks's Aura is huge and it stops models from targeting themselves. It can really, really mess up some models and crews. Still, of course his competition as a 7-Stone Gremlin Henchman is fierce. The Mech Pig looks good. Otherwise they look funny but not top tier stuff. Survivors are particularly lackluster.

 

Very much this. 

 

Survivors at the end of the beta were looking up to be models to be painted but never used if you actually wanted to achieve something (read Executioners). Sparks seemed like a seriously brutal model for some crews but probably a bit of a risk unless you know your meta and what you are going up against, but then it's just unfair to use that model.  

[Math Mathonwy]

Sparks seemed like a seriously brutal model for some crews but probably a bit of a risk unless you know your meta and what you are going up against, but then it's just unfair to use that model.

A little-known fact: Sparks oils his machines using Colette's tears.

[zFiend]

A little-known fact: Sparks oils his machines using Colette's tears.

I stand corrected. It's not always unfair.

[Vidd]

So can anyone confirm whether Survivors got anything after the beta ended?

What just occurred to me is, they can't Reckless to shoot and charge in the same turn. In fact, they lose the ability to make disengaging strikes if they achieve "This Thing Shoots?!" I'm at a loss about these guys and very disappointed if their card is no better than when the beta ended.

Five stones for Def 5, 4 Wounds, Walk 4 and having to reach a TN to shoot. Why bother?

[Math Mathonwy]

So can anyone confirm whether Survivors got anything after the beta ended?

What just occurred to me is, they can't Reckless to shoot and charge in the same turn. In fact, they lose the ability to make disengaging strikes if they achieve "This Thing Shoots?!" I'm at a loss about these guys and very disappointed if their card is no better than when the beta ended.

Five stones for Def 5, 4 Wounds, Walk 4 and having to reach a TN to shoot. Why bother?

I believe someone confirmed that they are unchanged before the great the forum rollback.

But yeah, they look very subpar on paper and couple that with the competition they will be facing in the 5SS bracket and it's just sad. I'm guessing that they will be packaged in a box with Sparks and Mech Porks because otherwise I don't think people will buy them

[zFiend]

Then again a serious problem is that the gremlin faction is riddled with stupendous models in and close that bracket. That if they wanted to make the Survivors a serious contender it would have been another silly ass model.

But the sculpts for them could make a nice change if game play and toning down the gremlin faction for friendly games, if they are nice enough. Then again if they are on the level of Forgotten Marshal and Winged Plague.. Well scratch that too.

[Absolution Black]

I will buy them regardless..but hey, I like plastic gremlins..And 2016 is the year of the Gremlin...

 

They will get tried out at some point.

[wizuriel]

So can anyone confirm whether Survivors got anything after the beta ended?

What just occurred to me is, they can't Reckless to shoot and charge in the same turn. In fact, they lose the ability to make disengaging strikes if they achieve "This Thing Shoots?!" I'm at a loss about these guys and very disappointed if their card is no better than when the beta ended.

Five stones for Def 5, 4 Wounds, Walk 4 and having to reach a TN to shoot. Why bother?

 

because armor with hard to kill in a faction with so much healing turns them into really good tarpits, the no charge aura is amazing for a few masters (looking at Ophilia) and they are one of the few ways you can get poison at range for Brewmaster. MI5 with a 2/4/5 (iirc) damage profile will also be handy for Mah. 

[Math Mathonwy]

because armor with hard to kill in a faction with so much healing turns them into really good tarpits,

They have four wounds and Reckless. When at full, they will likely take three hits or so to kill which is indeed rather nice but it's a very precarious balance and when at three Wd they will likely go down in two hits. I really wouldn't describe them as "really good tarpits".

the no charge aura is amazing for a few masters (looking at Ophilia)

It's certainly a nice Aura but it requires a Suit (and an important one at that) and though the area is rather nice, it still means that the Survivor needs to be in the thick of things and their 2" Melee already prohibits charging so it's not that big a deal.

and they are one of the few ways you can get poison at range for Brewmaster.

It's not a very good way of doing it, though - I'm not sure I see a place for Survivors in a Brewie squad.

MI5 with a 2/4/5 (iirc) damage profile will also be handy for Mah.

It's true that their gun remaining Ml is interesting with Mah.

But the big thing is that there simply isn't room in Gremlin lists for models like the Survivor, I think. There are so many better choices and Survivors don't have a proper niche, really. They try to do all sorts of things but are sorta lackluster at everything.

I think that with a stronger sense of purpose they could've made for a viable 5SS Gremlin without making them OP. But now they sort of flail every which way without excelling at anything, really.

[wizuriel]

They have four wounds and Reckless. When at full, they will likely take three hits or so to kill which is indeed rather nice but it's a very precarious balance and when at three Wd they will likely go down in two hits. I really wouldn't describe them as "really good tarpits".

It's certainly a nice Aura but it requires a Suit (and an important one at that) and though the area is rather nice, it still means that the Survivor needs to be in the thick of things and their 2" Melee already prohibits charging so it's not that big a deal.

It's not a very good way of doing it, though - I'm not sure I see a place for Survivors in a Brewie squad.

It's true that their gun remaining Ml is interesting with Mah.

But the big thing is that there simply isn't room in Gremlin lists for models like the Survivor, I think. There are so many better choices and Survivors don't have a proper niche, really. They try to do all sorts of things but are sorta lackluster at everything.

I think that with a stronger sense of purpose they could've made for a viable 5SS Gremlin without making them OP. But now they sort of flail every which way without excelling at anything, really.

 

Even if they take a wound from reckless I see them lasting a bit (especially compared to other models in faction). They have the same defense as Rooster Riders, Lightning Bugs and Slop Haulers, but 1-2 less wounds. Looking at them in a vacuum though compared to other 5-6pt minions

 

min damage 1 will kill in

Survivor = 4 hits

Lightning Bug = 6 hits

Slop Hauler = 5 hits

Rooster Rider = 6 hits

 

min damage 2 will kill in

Survivor = 4 hits

Lightning Bug = 3 hits

Slop Hauler = 3 hits

Rooster Rider = 3 hits

 

min damage 3 will kill in

Survivor = 3 hits

Lightning Bug = 2 hits

Slop Hauler = 2 hits

Rooster Rider = 2 hits

 

even if they take 1 wound from reckless and no other models in that list do, they will still last as long as the other models. So what other model do you take for tarpitting?

 

Or what other close combat models do you take with Mah (granted playing a competitive Mah is probably another thread in itself)?

 

Yeah brewie does have a few options for ranged poison. Trixie is a good one and iirc performers can do it, still not many ways for ranged poison (granted surviviors also need a trigger to do it as well as casting to get the ranged, still not like there many other ways to start the poison before Brewie is in the middle of an enemy crew).

 

 

Honestly I don't think they are amazing models, but they are far from useless. Unless fighting a heavy armor list I would probably take them over lightning bugs personally. 

[Math Mathonwy]

even if they take 1 wound from reckless and no other models in that list do, they will still last as long as the other models. So what other model do you take for tarpitting?

Waldgeists or Brewmaster. I don't think that Gremlins really do "tarpit" but OTOH I don't think they have to.

 

Or what other close combat models do you take with Mah (granted playing a competitive Mah is probably another thread in itself)?

Francois, Mancha Roja, Rooster Riders, Lil Lass and Mah herself - I don't think that you need to load up completely on melee Gremlins with her.

 

Yeah brewie does have a few options for ranged poison. Trixie is a good one and iirc performers can do it, still not many ways for ranged poison (granted surviviors also need a trigger to do it as well as casting to get the ranged, still not like there many other ways to start the poison before Brewie is in the middle of an enemy crew).

I don't think that Brewie really needs ranged Poison and in any case Survivor's provide an utterly miniscule amount of it.

 

Honestly I don't think they are amazing models, but they are far from useless. Unless fighting a heavy armor list I would probably take them over lightning bugs personally.

I don't think that they are useless, just that they are outshadowed by better choices. But I'm not saying that you're objectively wrong or anything, this is all firmly IMHO territory and it is worth remembering that I haven't tested them.

[Dumb Luck]

Brewmaster doesn't need much poison at any range. Boom. I said it.

 

Anyway, off topic a tad. Soz.

[Vorschlag]

Looking forward to trying them out both in faction and foundry.

I think the healing in gremlin's will make them more useful in faction but then arcanists have metal gamin so who knows.

Wondering how useful they will be with a piggapult to put them where you want them.

Maybe Somer, skeeters and piggapult will give them some utility.

[rgarbonzo]

Honestly, I have given up on Sparks and Survivors as an actual choice in the Gremlin faction. IMO they are tools for Mei Fang more than they bring anything really good to the Gremlin faction. Survivors are a big zero when compared to Bugs, Mech Pork might be useful with Ulix but Wild Boars are a stone cheaper and have From the Shadows. I will be skipping on Wave 3 Gremlins unless I see something that they can do better than the current choices in Gremlins.

[Malal]

Honestly, I have given up on Sparks and Survivors as an actual choice in the Gremlin faction. IMO they are tools for Mei Fang more than they bring anything really good to the Gremlin faction. Survivors are a big zero when compared to Bugs, Mech Pork might be useful with Ulix but Wild Boars are a stone cheaper and have From the Shadows. I will be skipping on Wave 3 Gremlins unless I see something that they can do better than the current choices in Gremlins.

 

^ This...which does make me wonder, I've not looked at any other factions wave 3 stuff, are we missing a hidden gem merc, thats true home is the bayou maybe?

[rgarbonzo]

I like the idea of Anna Lovelace, she seems to be an interesting concept to go into the Gremlins along with her sister.

[shahryar]

Slightly off topic but where can I find these bets cards?