The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly Ortegas

[AgentRock]

Here's a blog post I wrote about my current experiences with the Ortegas. As always, feedback is welcome.

[SkyDriver]

if you want some more feraity between SH and MI then i recommend an executioner, i just like the ambilities so much

Other than that it is pretty much the same as i experienced

[AgentRock]

Haven't dusted my fat wolverine off in a while, so maybe it's time to give him another look. They seem like they have enough obeys to shove him upfield pretty quickly. 

[PanzerHarris]

Nice blog entry, and I agree with the vast majority of it. For me Francisco, Abuela and the Nephilim start every game with Perdita, and I usually draft in one other big model depending on the situation. If I want flexibility, it's the Judge. Taelor regularly makes an appearance if I'm expecting Constructs or want to put the opposing crew off trying to charge across the board. Pale Rider appears if I want scheme markers, and as he's so fast he's a good target for Relocate and Shackle once 'married in' (probably to that slightly odd cousin who doesn't say a lot). As a left-field choice, Samael with Witch Hunt works well - Abuela, the Nephilim or Perdita Obey him to set fire to something near cover, then he can rapid fire at the target in his own activation doing horrendous damage with no cover possible...

Watchers are good for extra activations and scheme running, plus nobody likes the idea of Perdita not even needing line of sight any more courtesy of their 2 action. A Death Marshal is a good choice too - you can boost their Wp up to 10 in order to keep a model in a box if you really need to (El Mayor for +2, Shotgun Wedding to gain Family then be within Aura Ancestral for another +2).

[AgentRock]

I do like Death Marshals quite a bit, so I'll have to find some space to roll one in there. Plus they keep the Western look pretty well. 

Abuela's not been all that spectacular in games for me so far, at least in terms of damage dealing. I assume her real use is shotgun wedding and listen up young 'un. 

[PanzerHarris]

She takes a bit of setting up thanks to that 6" range, but that's not normally a problem between all the movement shenanigans in a Perdita crew and the Polite Push she gives another model.

I've always got Hair Trigger on her for Rapid Fire, which means when she does let rip, that's 3 shots at Sh7, and if you time it right you take the Slug trigger with the last shot and get 4 damage flips from those 3 shots. Fairly reliable killer of Enforcers or below, or can blow big chunks off Masters or Henchmen ready for an Austringer or even Perdita to finish off.

Love Granny - she sees a lot of action in other crews too!

[i9haunter]

I tend to only include Nino if distract or cursed object are in the scheme pool. With the proper placement he can prevent your opponent from accomplishing schemes. This also makes him a prime target, so you will need to take measures to protect him while maintaining a good view of the table.

[Dirial]

I tend to only include Nino if distract or cursed object are in the scheme pool. With the proper placement he can prevent your opponent from accomplishing schemes. This also makes him a prime target, so you will need to take measures to protect him while maintaining a good view of the table.

Nino also has his place in Squatter's Rights and against Deliver a Message.

[AgentRock]

I tend to only include Nino if distract or cursed object are in the scheme pool. With the proper placement he can prevent your opponent from accomplishing schemes. This also makes him a prime target, so you will need to take measures to protect him while maintaining a good view of the table.

Nino also has his place in Squatter's Rights and against Deliver a Message.

I could see it with Deliver a Message for sure. Just keep Perdita in LoS and...nope, no points for that scheme. 

[Jafar]

Don't you think that playing Ortegas (any guild mostly) leads to having eliter crew with not soo many activations as our opononet?

@Awol- great article for newbie like me :)

[Rurouni Benshin]

Don't you think that playing Ortegas (any guild mostly) leads to having eliter crew with not soo many activations as our opononet?

@Awol- great article for newbie like me

That's the risk any crew would run with more expensive models though, but with Perdita, that's just as much a strength for them, especially since just about all of them can "Companion".  Granted, it's largely situational, but if set up properly, companion'ing between her and Francisco in melee combat could be what you'd need just to take out a priority target.

[CapnBloodbeard]

I tend to only include Nino if distract or cursed object are in the scheme pool. With the proper placement he can prevent your opponent from accomplishing schemes. This also makes him a prime target, so you will need to take measures to protect him while maintaining a good view of the table.

Nino also has his place in Squatter's Rights and against Deliver a Message.

I could see it with Deliver a Message for sure. Just keep Perdita in LoS and...nope, no points for that scheme. 

How about Vendetta, given he can pretty much hit anybody on the board (assuming LOS)

[Dirial]

How about Vendetta, given he can pretty much hit anybody on the board (assuming LOS)

a. He can, but he won't. His Sh 5 prevents him from some choices.

b. He's 7 SS, so the targets for Vendetta are limited. And he has a lot of trouble reliably killing 7+SS models with his pitiful damage. So, no 3 VP.

c. It works, though. Not the worst choice, but an Austringer usually does the job way easier.

[CapnBloodbeard]

Good point.  Great thread overall and really enjoyed the blog post.

 

Personally I feel like Nino is underpowered.  I found myself longing for a Freikorps Trapper!  His LOS ability is nice, but a bit situation specific.- and the problem with the Family being such high SS models means you're unlikely to have enough models on the board to really make this a killer.  Great for some schemes, but not all 'interact' schemes.

[Dirial]

Yeah, Nino is not a killer. His Interact denial is pretty good though. But I only choose him for certain scenarios.

[AgentRock]

Good point.  Great thread overall and really enjoyed the blog post.

 

Personally I feel like Nino is underpowered.  I found myself longing for a Freikorps Trapper!  His LOS ability is nice, but a bit situation specific.- and the problem with the Family being such high SS models means you're unlikely to have enough models on the board to really make this a killer.  Great for some schemes, but not all 'interact' schemes.

Right. I have to think the balance cost of Spotter was a pretty heavy reduction in his killyness.

[CapnBloodbeard]

Yeah...then the counter is, Ortegas are probably happiest when they're NOT within 8" of an enemy.  Can't get beaten up then

Whenever I take the shot with Nino (first Guild game in a long time last week), I just find myself thinking, why bother?  Normally with the trapper I'll focus and shoot every turn, gives me a fairly decent chance of dropping a minion each turn.  Nino?  Even doing that seems unlikely to drop a minion, or do much more than scratch a master.

I feel like, aside from Spotter, he may still have purpose as a fullback: Stop minions from dropping scheme markers around the deployment zone, because he should have enough time to spend taking a few shots at a minion.  He's like a sniper that only shoots rubber bullets.

[Myyrä]

I don't understand how you people can complain about Nino's killynes while admiring trappers at the same time. Nino's attack is just strictly better than trapper's in terms of killing power.

[CapnBloodbeard]

He just seems to feel weaker.  Maybe it was just because in my game, everybody seemed to have cap guns.

You're right though - Nino is Sh 5, 1/2/4, built in ram, with Crit Strike.  Headshot is kinda nice, Precision seems like it would only make a potential difference on a small number of cases (eg turn a neg flip to a neutral so you can cheat in, only useful if you have a high card you'll cheat in, but wouldn't you just use that card with Perdita instead anyway?  So unless it's a critical duel, I don't see much use there), but then you're still on 1/2/4 not 2/3/5 like you would be with the crit strike.  So, double edged sword there.  

No Melee whatsoever though.  Although the Trapper's melee may as well be nonexistent anyway

(0)AP condition removal, both have different push-out-of-melee though.  Nino has better range, forgot about that.

 

Nino has one more wound but one lower def (I think I'd rather the def), and Trapper has defensive buffs and armor, so overall quite a bit harder to kill, assuming vS is nearby.  So at this stage it's a bit of a tossup over who is a better use of SS....Nino 7, Trapper 6 + 1 merc fee.  Trapper's reposition after attack is sweet though.  

(hey, why the heck does the trapper have a charge?)

 

Spotter is an ability that can, in some cases, make a definite difference to the VP - but that makes him a target too, and he'll drop quite easily.  Maybe that's where I feel like he's being let down, that he needs Hard to Kill or something, or perhaps it's just that a unique enforcer has roughly the same quality attack (potentially lower) than a nameless, faceless minion.

Personally, I still like the influence that snipers have over the enemy's movement.  Maybe next game I'm going to see if I can position him in a way that funnels the opposing models (eg down one side, thus forcing them into the middle) into a spot of my choosing.  I think the enemy models just end up hiding behind corners and I get drawn out and beaten up.

[Myyrä]

Nino has one more wound but one lower def (I think I'd rather the def)

Actually Nino is the one with higher Df and one less Wd.

[Rurouni Benshin]

I've only played Nino once, and it was in the first game I played Perdita's crew.  He was effective, but it wasn't anything awe inspiring.  The one thing he helped most with was with using the Enslaved Nephilim's "Shackled" ability, helping me push Perdita and other members out further up the board. 

I also played Perdita very passively too, keeping her further back with "Finger on the Trigger" activated.  For me, Nino was there to pick off models that Perdita had wounded but couldn't get the last wound to kill it off.  Now that I've been playing Perdita more aggressively, I've found that I'm using Nino less and less.  Of course that isn't to say he isn't without his uses, but like everyone has said, he's situationally great.

[ArcticPangolin]

He just seems to feel weaker.  Maybe it was just because in my game, everybody seemed to have cap guns.

You're right though - Nino is Sh 5, 1/2/4, built in ram, with Crit Strike.  Headshot is kinda nice, Precision seems like it would only make a potential difference on a small number of cases (eg turn a neg flip to a neutral so you can cheat in, only useful if you have a high card you'll cheat in, but wouldn't you just use that card with Perdita instead anyway?  So unless it's a critical duel, I don't see much use there), but then you're still on 1/2/4 not 2/3/5 like you would be with the crit strike.  So, double edged sword there.  

I find Precision is more useful to bring missing by 1 up to a draw.

[Rurouni Benshin]

I find Precision is more useful to bring missing by 1 up to a draw.

I agree.  The difference between missing and hitting can be pretty key.  Makes him a Sh 6 in my eyes, anyway.

[ArcticPangolin]

I find Precision is more useful to bring missing by 1 up to a draw.

I agree.  The difference between missing and hitting can be pretty key.  Makes him a Sh 6 in my eyes, anyway.

Sh6 with benefits!

[Dirial]

Sh 5 with 2/3/5, or Sh 6 with 1/2/4... yeah, not a killer.