Rampant Unfounded Speculation - The Other Side

[Viagrus]

I am thinking that you could possibly utilise a lot of the models already available in Malifaux in the new game, certainly scope for minions like Guild Guard etc..

Potentially a "squad" box containing 10 models for example will likely cost about the same as a crew box? Each model does not need to be individual, could have say 3 poses per box?

I can't see it being any more expensive than Warmahordes, and certainly cheaper than 40k for example!

If there's a box of 10 minis I want 10 different poses, or at the least mulipart models that will allow for a great deal of customisation. I want as many different models for Guild Guard and Riflemen as possible.

I think Malifaux has grown to a great breadth. We has so many different masters and so many niche models that are (mostly) all useable. I don't think anyone outside of Wyrd knows how much design space there is left in Malifaux, but as Malifaux stands right now I'm positively smitten with it.

A new game can be a great thing for us who have a hard time considering moving to a larger model count game. This could give the development team a chance to flex their creative muscles and give them the breather they might need from Malifaux. Personally, I left 40K because I got sick and tired of moving 100+ models a turn, most of which are the same and basically models for wound counters. I love how Malifaux is character based.

Of course anything we say is speculation.

As it stands now (a few days after some art and maybe 50 words from Wyrd about it) I am very hesitant to get into it because, 1) the art looks like Tyranids assaulting Imperial Guard, 2) I want to stay away from higher model count games and finally I've still got plenty of masters I haven't even played yet.

I want The Other Side to flourish just like I want Malifaux to flourish and grow. Wyrd may be the closest I come to brand or company loyalty. They produce great product that I enjoy immensely.

Nathan, Eric, Justin, Aaron, Mason and everyone else at Wyrd thank you for being a great company that produces some amazingly fun games.

[JoeJones]

I thought it was three: Shenlong, Hamelin, and Lord Chompy Bits.

[NoHero]

I thought it was three: Shenlong, Hamelin, and Lord Chompy Bits.

Rasputina and Sonnia both have tyrants inside them. I believe that you could argue either way as to whether or not you are playing as a tyrant.

[CannibalBob]

I thought it was three: Shenlong, Hamelin, and Lord Chompy Bits.

 

I forgot about Chompy Bits.  I don't think they mentioned him as a Tyrant in 1st edition and added that tidbit into the 2E Crossroads book (or maybe I never noticed it).

[Bengt]

Wyrd miniatures are not really expensive. Most starter box are $45-50 and has 6-7 man sized models. While 10 Tactical Marines are cheaper at $40 any kind of specialists (Assault, Devestators, Veterans) are 5 for $40. Single Wyrd models range from $11 for a single human up to $35 for big guys (e.g. Whiskey Golem, Hannah). Single Space Marine HQ models cost $15-30, a Dreadnought (similar in size to a Whiskey Golem) cost $46.

[CannibalBob]

Wyrd miniatures are not really expensive. Most starter box are $45-50 and has 6-7 man sized models. While 10 Tactical Marines are cheaper at $40 any kind of specialists (Assault, Devestators, Veterans) are 5 for $40. Single Wyrd models range from $11 for a single human up to $35 for big guys (e.g. Whiskey Golem, Hannah). Single Space Marine HQ models cost $15-30, a Dreadnought (similar in size to a Whiskey Golem) cost $46.

 

This is a fair point.

 

I have played miniature games for over 25 years now (starting to get old... get off my lawn you whippersnappers!), and I think the best way to look at the true cost/value of a game is not to look at the individual price of a playing piece but rather to look at the various costs of: initial starting buy in, average total cost of a "standard" sized force, and the overall cost of continued expansion (what does the game ask me to regularly spend as it continues to grow).  Malifaux is BY FAR the best value in just about all of those categories compared to other miniature games on the market (worth mentioning that Infinity is roughly in the same spot as well).  

 

Yes, you don't get as much physical stuff for the price, but the game delivers more quality playtime experience for a smaller price than almost every competitor.  Wyrd has done an excellent job in that regard.  The game is set up extremely well for those people on a limited budget.  It allows you to do very well at a fairly small buy-in (2nd edition does an even better job at this than 1st ed).  But I think the designers were very astute in how they also allowed the factions to bleed into one another which can lead players to a very organic expansion of their collections.  And the game is also set up in a such a way that those of us with a fairly large amount of disposable hobby income can spend an awful lot of it in the game if we want.

 

The only person who I don't think Malifaux is the best value as a miniature game on the market is the person who is solely a modeler/painter.  Now, let me first say that I think the Malifaux models are absolutely fantastic and some of the best on the market.  The material is great and easily my favorite plastic material to work with as a modeller (I prefer it to the softer GW plastic).  I also think the sculpting and poses are great.  But the reason I don't say it is the best value for that crowd is simply that it costs a fair bit per model and I am specifically referring to the crowd that is mainly interested in the artistic hobby aspect and less in the game.  Malifaux is still good to that crowd, but it is probably not the best in market.  For that crowd I think you either need to look to the extremely conversion friendly GW or the ultra-detailed resin-cast miniature makers (like McVey or Mierce).

 

But in regards to gameplay per dollar I don't think very many companies come close to Wyrd.

[jonahmaul]

All good points Bob. Though I'm not enamored with the thought of yet another game from Wyrd at this point what does go for them is that the things they do for Malifaux they do very well. Great miniatures, decent price point, excellent ruleset and good community

[CannibalBob]

All good points Bob. Though I'm not enamored with the thought of yet another game from Wyrd at this point what does go for them is that the things they do for Malifaux they do very well. Great miniatures, decent price point, excellent ruleset and good community

 

I agree.

 

Right now all they have proven is that what they do exceptionally well is the skirmish-scale Malifaux.  I have zero experience with any of their board games so I cannot comment on those.  I am rather interested in Darkness Comes Rattling, but I will admit that I was not interested enough to invest in it from the gencon sale (there was way too much Malifaux stuff competing for my extra cash).  I will most likely pick it up, but I will get it from the general release at some point.

 

But I think they have done an excellent job with Malifaux.  My experience watching them in the miniature game market tells me that they have a fair clue at what they are doing (they are one of the more transparent companies out there) which is why I think they have a good shot at putting out a good game at a different scale.  But I could be wrong.  I am fully willing to admit that I may be wrong and that it may have happened on at least one or more occasions (don't listen to my wife on this matter...).

[Bengt]

 and I think the best way to look at the true cost/value of a game is not to look at the individual price of a playing piece but rather to look at the various costs of: initial starting buy in, average total cost of a "standard" sized force, and the overall cost of continued expansion (what does the game ask me to regularly spend as it continues to grow). 

I don't think anyone has argued that Malifaux has an expensive start cost and so on. Someone claimed it had a high cost per model though so I was addressing that point. I chose to compare Wyrd to Space Marines (by far the most dominant miniature line on the market) and I think they come out quite favourably. Now some 40k factions have slightly cheaper line infantry than Space Marines, but specialists, individuals and "big guys" are priced pretty much the same as Space Marines.

[CannibalBob]

I don't think anyone has argued that Malifaux has an expensive start cost and so on. Someone claimed it had a high cost per model though so I was addressing that point. I chose to compare Wyrd to Space Marines (by far the most dominant miniature line on the market) and I think they come out quite favourably. Now some 40k factions have slightly cheaper line infantry than Space Marines, but specialists, individuals and "big guys" are priced pretty much the same as Space Marines.

 

I did not disagree with your cost analysis.  I was merely saying that I think to see the true value that you get with Malifaux that you should look at the full picture across the game and not for individual models.

[Bengt]

Another thought, "Coming Soon" doesn't feel like next GenCon to me, more like Christmas/Black Friday.

[Viagrus]

The Dark Carnival Coryphee advert specifically said Black Friday as the release. This is the first we've heard of it, unless they've been designing and playtesting for the last year I think this announcement is just to build hype and see the reaction of the general public.

Aaron made a post about needing a lead artist for a new game they're designing back in May. I know the Wyrd team is great but I don't think they can build a well designed game with models ready for retail in 7 months, if the posting was was for The Other Side. They'll probably have more info during the Black Friday sale.

Not to mention Gencon is when they release new games not Black Friday.

[Attrition]

While we're just speculating, there are a couple reasons beyond rules differences that the Other Side and Malifaux might not be compatible.

 

1) While set in the same world, the games might not be contemporaneous. The technology in the illustration looks a bit more advanced, and the Other Side could be set slightly in the future in relation to Malifaux. If this were set during the 1930s or 40s, we could be looking at a transition from steampunk to dieselpunk, which I think would be great!

 

2) The scale of the miniatures could be different. I'd love to see the Other Side in 15mm for a true army scale game that does not require an absurdly large 40K apocalypse style table.

[PolishSausage]

I agree about the point of potential release before next gencon.

 

You want to have the starter sets/ armies/ product out for people to play and paint so that you can showcase the full game at gencon with all the tournaments and events.

 

Miniatures dropped On gencon wont be shown used by the public till next year, and that is a lot of missed sales.

[DeleteAccount]

The price point for company level I´m expecting is something similar to the rpg models, so if they can keep those costs, although with a bit more varied poses, they will be GOLDEN. I mean a 10 man unit for 35 dollars at that quality seems like a steal to me. Keep those costs for the units even if they aren´t as fancy as what we are used to in Malifaux and they will be able to create a nice niche. Age of Sigmar and 40K is the expensive model wise (I´ll ignore rulewise....) with high end plastics (with bloated prices...), Warmachine and Hordes are in similar price points to GW, but offer a lot more deals to get started quick and proper and kings of war is all about lots of models for cheap, but looking kind of dodgy (you get what you pay after all), The Other Side could fall perfectly in between the PP and Mantic rage costwise. Make it so you can play with 4 units, a couple of characters, a small support unit and a big critter and bam, you have something interesting in the oven.

 

The other thing I´m happy is that both systems won´t be related since although it would be cool to put mu current models into the game table, it ends up being a headache and shackles design space.

[Halflingspy]

One of our writer's here at Sprites and Dice actually had a chance to talk with Aaron about the game, and wrote up a small article on it.

It's not a LOT to go over yet, but it's definitely a good place to start.  I'm excited to see where Wyrd goes with this: as a Henchman, the switch from 1st edition to 2nd edition caused a lot of unsurity, and I know around me, several players quit the game because of it.  However, I know that they do think things through, and one benefit of Wyrd being Wyrd is they've seen companies like GW and Privateer Press work in this field before, and can find their own path after others have walked down the path of a army-sized game.

http://www.spritesanddice.com/2015/08/gencon-reports-other-side.html

[DeleteAccount]

One of our writer's here at Sprites and Dice actually had a chance to talk with Aaron about the game, and wrote up a small article on it.

It's not a LOT to go over yet, but it's definitely a good place to start.  I'm excited to see where Wyrd goes with this: as a Henchman, the switch from 1st edition to 2nd edition caused a lot of unsurity, and I know around me, several players quit the game because of it.  However, I know that they do think things through, and one benefit of Wyrd being Wyrd is they've seen companies like GW and Privateer Press work in this field before, and can find their own path after others have walked down the path of a army-sized game.

http://www.spritesanddice.com/2015/08/gencon-reports-other-side.html

Sweet info, liking how it sounds, though not really sure if I´ll commit, I´ve left company based games and not really that eager to go back to lugging a big bag around to play.

[Palooka]

I kinda agree. 

 

Honestly, I find it hard to get excited about this.  Wyrd already has several games that it doesn't support (Kings of Artiice; Shadownrun; Puppet Wars; Evil Baby Orphanage) while TTB has only just come out (and it is heavily supported at the moment but will it stay that way?).  Darkness Comes Rattling has not dropped yet and we are still waiting for Malifaux miniatures from the first book to be released let alone the second and the third has now just been released.  Feels like Wyrd are spreading themselves too thin at the moment.

 

While I sorta see where you're coming from - in that I get a bit frustrated at a lot of the little loose threads that they haven't quite tied up yet Malifaux model wise - one of the things that scares me is that there's a finite amount of models left to release - and there's not much to look forward to. A new game opens that up, and I appreciate that - because it's more to look forward to. New releases excite me.

[CannibalBob]

The Dark Carnival Coryphee advert specifically said Black Friday as the release.

 

Where is this advert?  I must see it.

[D_acolyte]

I plan on getting at least the rule book, and probably more, for the Other Side when it comes out. I am hoping that it is a slightly larger than Malifuax because I like the skirmish game and think if Wyrd just repeats in a different setting it will not take off and I want them both to do well.

Also those monsters look like Deep Ones.

[SpectreEliteGaming]

Very interesting stuff... we'll have to see how it turns out before I make any actual decisions/commitments. I'll probably just paint interesting models here and there.

I don't think I'm that interested though... there are lots of different games already established that fill the small scale army spot that are good and actually played near me. The last thing I need is another game, anyway. Malifaux was special because of its size - I'm not trucking an army 24hrs into the states to a con unless its a display only type deal. I have a feelig just because of the way people are - one game wil trump the other and one will see little to no play - future speculation, right?

I do understand the need for the company to expand and keep selling stuff so its not like I'm resisting it or something. I was told by a FW dude that there will be rules for my Chaos Dwarves for Sigmar so I might just do that if it actually catches on.

Also... not important... but "The Other Side" - not liking the name. It sounds okay on its own (too rpgish though and not army enough) but not when you think of it in use "I'm going to play The Other Side tonight." Meh.

Names like Warmachine hit you right in the damn face with awesomeness, if you know what I mean... thats all I'm saying.

[SpectreEliteGaming]

I was thinking purely based on marketability... it doesn't sound immediately interesting. Instead - like you even mentioned - this game relies on you knowing Malifaux to appreciate the reference.

I don't actually play warmachine but when I hear that title I think "fuck yeah!" When I hear "The Other Side" I think "of what?"

Furthermore, and this is kind of funny in retrospect, I got one of those cards too but just thought, at a quick glance, that it was some Malifaux reference and didn't really notice it was a new game til I saw this thread. /shrug

[odinfellhammer]

I hope we can get in on a beta test for this.

[jonahmaul]

I like 'The Other Side' from an insider's point of view.  As Crush states it alludes to the fact that Malifaux is breachside with this new game most likely be setting Earthside which has not become 'The Other Side' because of the power generated in Malifaux by magic (and in particular SS).  However, SGE makes some very good points about how in isolation it sounds a bit meh.  Warhammer, Warhamchine, Deadzone etc. all have a much better ring to them and call immediately to what the games involve in a way that The Other Side doesn't (and I don't fancy telling people I'm off to TOS tonight!)

[odinfellhammer]

How about this for a Title: Invasion: the Other Side of the Breach.