Ten Thunders Archer vs Katanaka Sniper

[santaclaws01]

Which ones would you hire for a Shenlong crew and why? Currently leaning towards the snipers because of the (0) and them having a melee attack to defend themselves.

[zFiend]

I have heard horror stories of snipers with the Shenlong.

[Silencer]

Shenlong with snipers is terryfing... free focus for them is massive.

[Adran]

I would probably go on the 1 sniper is better than 1 archer, but 2 Archers (and Blot the sky) is probably better than 2 snipers. Depending on what you are truying to achieve

[OneLittleThunder]

Both have their place, depending on your needs.

 

Snipers have the advantages of superior range, slightly better damage, melee ability, From the Shadows, and durability.

 

Archers have the advantages of a higher Sh, firing into combat without randomization, Rapid Fire, improved Focus, blast damage, and Blot the Sky.

 

If you want to do ranged damage in the middle of a midfield melee struggle (Turf War, Guard the Stash), Archers are a lot better.

 

If you want to pick off enemies outside of combat while being able to hold your own in a scrap, Snipers have the edge.

 

Either one can benefit very nicely from Shenlong and co., although the Archers are probably more likely to be within range of his 6" Focus bubble (assuming you take advantage of From the Shadows).

 

I recommend having both on hand if you can afford it.

[MrDeathTrout]

Agree with OneLittleThunder depends on what you need to get done.  I have run both in pairs (though not with Shen Long).  I think next I'm going to try running one of each, they each seem to cover the other weaknesses.

[scarlett fever]

I think the choice for me would be terrain dependent. Snipers like long firing alleys they can control, Archers are best hidden behind terrain or a wall of models.

 

That said unless Vendetta is in the pool (Archers are great for Vendetta) I almost always go for Snipers. 2 focus shots from each Sniper per turn and then once they close in melee they do more damage and Shenlong can keep bumping them up over their HTK. They can be extremely frustrating for your opponent.

 

Archers are very fragile and you need to have a babysitter with an upgrade slot to get the most out of them. I think of them mostly as a melee buff that you can move the focus of their attention each turn, good for finishing off models. Watch out for Neverborn as they have a heap of placement/movement tricks and can suddenly be right next to your archers when you don't want them to be.

[Patzer]

In general I prefer the Snipers. They are pretty good in melee as well as their shooting goodness. With that said though, the Archers can be more effective on terrain heavy boards. Archers will need a baby sitter who also carries the upgrade, i.e., more set up than the Snipers. On the other hand, with Blot the Sky and that Shenlong can give them Fast (Yu can further push them around in order to not waste any AP on pedestrian things like walking). Meaning that they can Focus shoot twice, or shoot Hail twice with Focus. Pretty ridiculous.

 

Another thing that is worth to remember is Yu's aura, which brings Snipers to Sh 6 and Archers to Sh 7 while Focusing.

[Rurouni Benshin]

I've played with the Katanaka Snipers with Shenlong before, and they worked beautifully. Their (0) action to Focus made them very mobile, and even though they never had to cross the field, they did just as well as I expected them to.

 

However, that isn't to say that the TT Archers aren't without their strengths too.  Like others have mentioned, with "Blot the Sky", a pair of TT Archers would be devastating.  Double moving them on first turn, (0) Focus (with "Reading the Wind") would give you a Focus +2 for a big shot with "Blot the Sky" at the end of the turn.  Even against Hard Cover, you'd be at a for both the Attack and Damage flip.

[santaclaws01]

So Snipers seem to be the generally better pick, with Archers having some areas where they perform better?

[Patzer]

Pretty much consensus I reckon. 

[Rurouni Benshin]

So Snipers seem to be the generally better pick, with Archers having some areas where they perform better?

Pretty much. Snipers are more resilient (higher Df, Wp and Wd), and have both a MI and Sh attack. Only thing they lack in is a Cg range, which ironically, TT Archers can't even use since they don't have a Ml attack. Weird...

[Patzer]

Archers are a good pick with McCabe for their charge. He can also give them reactivate and nimble, which is a ton of fun.

[HowNot2Wargame]

Take both with fuhatsu and gunline everyone...

Not really but its still funny

[Patzer]

You can take Fuhatsu, Pathfinder, two Snipers as a very solid core 30ss core for a lot of crews.

[santaclaws01]

Shenlong with a style upgrade, 2 Snipers, 3 Archers, Fuhatsu with Blot the Sky and a peasants gets 50 ss. Seems like it would be fun if a bit impractical.

[zFiend]

which is a ton of fun.

 

For who?

[MrDeathTrout]

Shenlong with a style upgrade, 2 Snipers, 3 Archers, Fuhatsu with Blot the Sky and a peasants gets 50 ss. Seems like it would be fun if a bit impractical.

 

Or take McCabe as your and drop something to add 2 Austringers.  Five shooters with no-LoS.       

[santaclaws01]

Or take McCabe as your and drop something to add 2 Austringers.  Five shooters with no-LoS.       

But they don't get a free (0) focus.

[EntrepeNinja]

Eh. Who needs a 0 focus when you bring scheme utility and ranged, LOS free discard tech?

 

ENinja

[santaclaws01]

Shenlong has plenty of scheme utility and the unique ability to move 3 scheme markers at once.

[EntrepeNinja]

Right, but you can't take an austringer with Shenlong. McCabe gets the austringers, and he cares less about models with 0 actions.

 

I'm picking Shenlong up. I've just bought Katanaka(nakanakanaka) Snipers, and am excited to throw them around a bit. Archers are still high on my list, specifically because I have a soft spot for models that can shoot into engagements, and I like Toshiro and Kang who are both great carriers of the blot the sky upgrade. 

 

ENinja

[zFiend]

Eh. Who needs a 0 focus when you bring scheme utility and ranged, LOS free discard tech?

 

Fair enough.  

[Badluck&blood!]

I've tried the archers a bit because I adore the models but I have never, ever done anything useful with them. At most I've found they cause a couple of wounds and are then killed at long range or just melee to death. I've tried cover, I've tried the upgrade. Nothing has ever worked. 

 

The Katanaka sniper on the other hand has brought me nothing but goodness. I've had them drop a guild guard or two with critical strike, or tie up board area's with aggressive From the Shadow's deployment or be well placed for schemes or scheme markers. They are the same price but can just do more things better. I really wish the archers were viable but I find like a lot of the early TT stuff, they aren't. 

[BigHammer]

Have you tried hiding the archers behind one or two of your own models with larger bases? They can see the enemy, but the enemy can't see them, making them very difficult to deal with. If the enemy gets close, the models in front can engage them to keep them off the archer, while the archer simply shoots with impunity into that melee.

 

Archers don't fit into every crew or strat/scheme pool, but whenever I think they might be useful, they almost always (bar some poor luck) have a strong effect on the game they're in.