Kirai vs Molly

[szendroib]

Hello!

 

I'm planning to expand into resser territory (through a Yan Lo spirit-ish crew). I really like both Kirai and spirit Molly in theory, they look like fun masters. My question would be for those who have played them both:

 

What are the differences (pros and cons) between the two gals and their play styles? I have no experience with them so they might be very different and only similar in their hiring pool so excuse me if it is a silly question

 

Thanks in advance!

[Fetid Strumpet]

I've mostly played Molly, but I have minimal experience with Kirai, though I have played her.

 

So, both masters can do some great work with spirits. Molly has two limited upgrades, one that lets her synergies with Spirits and the other with Horrors. Having been playing Molly pretty solidly through play test and into general release, I personally think that she is another order of magnitude more powerful as a Spirit Master, though the common perception seems to think Horrors are better. I personally chalk that up to most people not having all the spirits as they aren't all out in plastic yet. I'm a hold over from v1 so I already have all the spirits in metal.

 

So when they play with spirits they can be pretty similar... sort of. So Molly needs to be up in the action in order to use her to best effect. Her longest range ability is like 8", so you will be utilizing her in the danger zone more often than Kirai. She also has a more unique way of summoning as you will want clusters of enemies to get the best use from her, though in my experience outside of getting four models clumped up, it doesn't tend to make much difference as to her models' survivability, outside of models with Hard to Kill (one of the main benefits to the HORROR side).

 

Molly likes clumps because when she summons not only do her models essentially only get an amount of wounds equal to the enemies in 3", but all those enemy models then take a high WP duel or take 1 dmg from the summoning spell. Not only that, but one of Molly's big abilities is to give out black blood to belles and her characteristic of choice. So the tighter the enemy clumps against Molly's summons the more wounds they have, the more models that might take a dmg or drain their hand, and the more models that have the potential to be caught in black blood splash dmg.

 

Molly herself isn't that deadly, and her longest range is 8". She can buff her minions with an expensive 0 action spell for reactivate, and can give out 1 AP as a 0 action again to her targeted characteristic. Her dmg spell, Revelations, is a high value and can slow or paralyze as well as dmg, depending on what level of dmg you do, and it has 3 triggers, one of which is baked in and causes a card draw and then discard, to cycle your hand values or dig for suits.

 

Molly is also pretty mobile, in addition to her average walk of 5, she's a Belle, so Sybelle can boost her walk by 1. In addition Sybelle's call belle can basically Teleport Molly from anywhere in LoS and 12" to Sybelle, so she can really get around. She also gives great support because she has Accomplice as a basic feature on her card, which is probably one of her best features.

 

She's probably one of the more fragile Resser masters though, and she can eat your hand more than many other resser master. She only has 10 wounds, and though she has a really good trigger for defense it eats massive amounts of cards to utilize, and if you are counting on summoning as well your hand is going to drain very fast. In addition her only way to heal directly is through her Revelation attack and getting the mask trigger off. She isn't a snap to kill, as she is pretty durable, but compared to almost all the other resser masters and their favored upgrade load outs, she is on the easier to kill end of the spectrum.'

 

 

Now Kirai...

 

Kirai is sort of more stereotypical of the mental image of a caster. While she doesn't want to be totally up front, she likes to hang around the edges and stay away from the main frey. Her ranged attack is ok without modification, giving some good triggers and average dmg which doesn't randomize into combat and has really good range. She messes with the opponent's plans quite a bit though.

 

The first and most important way is her Malevolence aura. Dmg her or a living or undead model in that aura and it doesn't matter where you are on the board, Kirai can for the cost of a stone or card, drop a VERY scary and solid beater enforcer right into b2b with you. So enemies have to be a little more wary and meticulous of how they plan to do dmg to Kirai and her friends so the Ikryo doesn't get dropped right on top of a model that can't deal with her.

 

Secondly, she supports her crew by moving them around via swirl Spirits. Any one of the spirits in range can suddenly become a different spirit in the blink of an eye. You might almost have killed Izamu, when Kirai goes and whisks him off to safety, leaving you with a Seishin in its place. Or you might be pounding on a Lowly Gaki when suddenly Izamu is in your face instead. She has upgrades to use spirits to heal or draw cards and a few other various things. 

 

Her summoning is also slightly different from others in that she doesn't summon out of thin air like Molly, and she doesn't use Corpses like Seamus or Nicodem, what she uses are models. She summons using her own models and when she summons the summoned model and the model summoned from both take dmg equal to half the wounds of the summoned model. So if you summon an 8 wound model, both the summoned model and the summoned from model take 4 dmg each. This tends to have Kirai bringing models which function well as summoning batteries, like Flesh Constructs.

 

Kirai gets nastier because of hr two upgrades, which one is her shears and the other buffs her ranged attack. The shears give her a charge range as well as a positively forgettable ML attack. The thing that makes it worth considering however is it also gives you accomplice, which is just golden for Summoners in general. The other gives her attack action a trigger, baked in, that does +1 dmg, which takes it into very respectable ringed master dmg that doesn't randomize in combat, as well as some decent triggers for her summon spell.

 

Kirai can also be VERY hard to kill, possibly one of the harder masters or easier depending on circumstances. Like Molly she has an amazing defensive trigger. Unlike Molly she doesn't have it baked in, so she has to trigger it whenever she wants to use it, which is something that can be exploited by an opponent. She also doesn't have to be as close as Molly to the action, and can project force from a further distance, and she herself as a 0 action can summon Seishin which are great targets for her defensive trigger, and can blow themselves up for heals or protection from blasts and the like.

 

Both are not the simplest masters to play, but I feel that Kirai is the more complicated of the two. I also feel she is in a competitive sense the more powerful of the two, if you can master her. She's also not especially forgiving, both in the sense of how she can steamroll an opponent, but also in how if an opponent works out her to deal with her she can fold like wet paper very, very fast. Make a mistake with Molly and you can probably come back from it, depending on circumstances. Make a mistake with Kirai, and its even harder to come back from. 

[szendroib]

Thank you for this awesome comparision, just the thing I was looking for .

[D_acolyte]

I ran Kiria once and I love the Seishin, they saved my bacon once with the Enslaved Soul ability which i used to block LOS between her and Talor that engaged her. Otherwise i have very little to contribute on her.

[Kogan Style]

Molly can also access Seishin via Datsue Ba, who is a great henchmen for her if she goes down the spirit route (Datsue is also Kirai's henchmen so a worthwhile purchase if you can find her!)

[jonahmaul]

I would speculate that Datsu-Ba will probably come packaged with some more Seishin that Kirai needs too.

[Daysleeper]

I would speculate that Datsu-Ba will probably come packaged with some more Seishin that Kirai needs too.

 

Idealy its Datsue-Ba and 3 Seishin as Kirai has 2 in her boxset

[Strangely Brown]

Idealy its Datsue-Ba and 3 Seishin as Kirai has 2 in her boxset

 

That would be great - like a mini boxset.  Or at least a box set of 3 Seishin like the other minion boxes.

[Phototropic]

I find kirai's is a great master who has some amazing summons so can compete at most strats with an easy to use summoning style (seishin giving you +2 to ca, flesh constructs to summon off and healing from kirai and lost love to heal them back up), her movement tricks from swirl spirits, and how the threat of malevolence can mess with your opponents plans. Her main down fall is that her minions like to die so can give lots of points on reckoning, but yan lo who you have should definitely cover this (i really need to pick up yan lo). I haven't had as many games with molly but she seems more of a schemey master being able to hand out activations, -ve duels and summons that should hold up the enemy, and with the other movement tricks in her crew. she can summon some great models but they will come in with less wounds, her summoning is an additional trick to her already great  0 actions unlike kirai where it is her focus. They are both interesting crew who offer lots of variety, i find kirai to be more powerful with her summoning and other tricks (people love it when you summon to hanged turn one and swirl izamu in later on) and a nice variety of spirits to counter most crews. You are likely to find more variety in a molly crew with the additonal belles working with her, i always find it hard to take non-spirits with kirai when i get so much synergy out of spirits with the ways she can hand out adversary.

 

give in, buy them both. 

[nunorod]

I have... bought them both... Yes, Datsue Ba is bound to come by December or January and is a box with hechman and Seishin.

[D_acolyte]

I find that box a little weak as Datsue Ba is already in Kirai's box.

[Fetid Strumpet]

She isn't actually, unless you are referring to the old metal box. The new plastic is ikiryo, 2 seishin, 2 onryo, and Kirai.

[D_acolyte]

Wow I must have missed that change, never mind me then.

[jonahmaul]

Warstore which seems pretty reliable with it's release dates has Datsu-Ba coming packaged with Seishin due on on January 22nd.  I would think that would slip because of general delays with Wyrd stuff but early next year looks good.

[zFiend]

Warstore which seems pretty reliable with it's release dates has Datsu-Ba coming packaged with Seishin due on on January 22nd. I would think that would slip because of general delays with Wyrd stuff but early next year looks good.

I think it was mentioned by Aaron as well at some point that datsue-ba does come with the seishins.