2 player starter box

[Dirial]

First they came for the trenchcoats, and I didn't speak up, because I didn't wear a trenchcoat.

 

Then they came for the monocles, and I didn't speak up, because I didn't wear a monocle.

 

 

Then they came for the top hats... and everyone spoke up, because who doesn't love a flippin' top hat?

 

[MasterDisaster]

After three waves, it's frustrating that female players don't get models that look like they can take a punch. 

 

Ironsides....

 

 

EDIT - Oh and Johana...

[Armour]

 

and Johana...

 

My first thought was the disparity behind Johan's gigantism disorder when compared to the Johana.  She is pretty decent, but Johan is a MONSTER.  Then I thought about how awesome it would have been if Johana had exactly the same body proportions.

 

And now I have to mod my Johan when he arrives into a Johana.  Thanks, MasterDisaster.  I hope you're proud of yourself. (sarcasm intended)

 

But seriously, mega-Johana is a thing that is going to happen now.

 

EDIT: On-topic, I rather like the 2-player box.  As one of the most keen players in a budding Malifaux community, I'm looking forward to having an easy demo set.

[Otylia]

As a woman, I'd like to just throw in my two cents and say if anything, I wish Wyrd had propagated the stereotypes a bit more for the starter box.

 

I agree the fluff of Malifaux allows for a wide range of female (and male) body types that haven't fully been explored in the current model line (though I'd be horrifically bored and disappointed to see an all female wave I have to say).  But for someone who is uninitiated in the fluff - someone who is just starting out and for who the starter box is most targeted for - I think the characters aren't that inspiring.  Sure from a demographics standpoint it's great that there's a nurse who looks realistic and believable and doesn't rely on her gender to get her job done.... but if I was new to the game, I'd think "I can be that in real life, why do I want to do that in a fantasy universe?".  If it should be encouraged or not is a separate topic, but it's a fact that society encourages women to seek out an unattainable and unnatural level of physical appearance.  So I wish they had included a more pin-up-esque character to allow women to play out that ideal a bit.  The current models in the starter wouldn't remotely be enough to pull me into the game.

 

And honestly, part of what drew me to the NB is the fact that for the most part they all look fragile (little children, an elderly hag, scantily clad women) but they are truly devastating powerhouses of destruction using their looks just to further pray on the thoughts and emotion of man.  So frankly, I don't think a girl who looks like she could take a punch really fits in that faction in particular fluff-wise.

[moxypoo]

I generally stay out of these threads, so I'll begin with this: I don't really care whether Wyrd changes the proportions of race or gender in their new model releases, because I find humans boring to paint unless they're particularly awesome sculpts (plastic Leveticus woo!). However, I would like to make some points regarding the main discussion occurring in this thread.

 

First, in regard to women who look like they can take a punch - go look up pictures of Ronda Rousey (current champion) or any of the other female UFC fighters.  These women fight professionally for a living and look a lot more like Viktoria of Ashes/Blood or Ironsides than the average American woman.  The two women's UFC classes consist of women who are ~5'1-5'5 115lbs (strawweight) and ~5'6-5'10 135lbs (bantamweight), so I think a lot of the female fighters in Malifaux generally fit that body type.

 

Second, I think it's unfair to call Wyrd misogynistic for producing female models with their midriff exposed or wearing clothing that's considered "sexy."  I've lived all over the USA, and I see women literally everyday wearing skimpier clothing in public than the vast majority of female models Wyrd produces (and I'm not even on social media!). For example, while walking into work this morning, I passed a group of 6 or 7 women running in sports bras and tight running shorts, which incidentally is essentially the same clothing worn by female UFC fighters.

 

Lastly, I see this argument come up almost anytime Wyrd produces new female models, and I'm beginning to see a pattern.  It seems that an example is cherry picked to "prove" the misogynist argument, while all the examples that go against that argument are ignored.  For example, this discussion started because Angel Eyes has an exposed midriff while the fact that another woman in the starter set that is not sexy and is wearing completely work appropriate attire is overlooked.  I've compiled a quick list of female models that I wouldn't consider oversexualized; note that this list includes only models that are obviously female (you can't tell the gender of the Oxfordian Mages for example).

 

Humans:

Abuela Ortega, Guild Guard, Witchling Handler, Molly Squidpidge (any sculpt), Kirai (more so the metal), Crooligan, Jaakuna Ubame, Toni Ironsides, Performers (any sculpt), Silent Ones, Angelica, Nurse Heartsbane, Stolen, Rusty Alyce, Obedient Wretch, Friekorps Librarian, Vanessa, Chiaki, Viktoria of Ashes, Sonnia Criid (any sculpt), Perdita Ortega (all sculpts but the original metal), Rasputina (any sculpt), December Acolyte, Tara, Hannah, Taelor (plastic), Missing No, Karina, Student of Conflict, Johanna, Misaki (any sculpt), Mei Feng, Yamaziko, Oiran, Illuminated, Torakage.

 

Non-humans:

Datsue-Ba, Phillip's Nanny, Ikiryo, Onryo (they seem female to me), Vasilisa, Widow Weaver, Mah Tucket, Little Lass, Sammy (don't know whether Sammy is male or female), Bayou Bushwacker, Lightning Bug, Yin, Bete Noir, Lilith (plastic), Pandora (any sculpt), Zoraida (any sculpt), Candy

 

One can certainly argue that there should be more female sculpts in the line, and like I said, I don't care either way what Wyrd decides to do on that front.  However I disagree with the assertion that most/all/majority of female sculpts in the line are over sexualized. To end on a lighter note: I live in southern California, and seeing women with boobs bigger than their head isn't exactly uncommon down here haha.

[MasterDisaster]

My first thought was the disparity behind Johan's gigantism disorder when compared to the Johana.  She is pretty decent, but Johan is a MONSTER.  Then I thought about how awesome it would have been if Johana had exactly the same body proportions.

 

And now I have to mod my Johan when he arrives into a Johana.  Thanks, MasterDisaster.  I hope you're proud of yourself. (sarcasm intended)

 

But seriously, mega-Johana is a thing that is going to happen now.

 

 

You are quite welcome!

 

Also to those who want to see more diverse body types for the female models in Malifaux. I direct your attention to here... Aaron has been up to his old tricks again that little scamp! I hope this is legit! I really hope it is, she looks awesome! 

 

http://wyrd-games.net/community/topic/109187-miss-model-gen-con-2016/page-2

[Silencer]

Only one thing - why the heck Neverborn are getting any snipers ? Like they already having some crazy stuff and now they are getting guns ? Otherwise the crazy doctor looks sweet

[Dirial]

Only one thing - why the heck Neverborn are getting any snipers ? Like they already having some crazy stuff and now they are getting guns ?

 

[jonahmaul]

I don't like NB getting access to a non-Merc sniper either.  I feel that this and some of the Wave 3 stuff that I've discussed with friends (I've not actually read any of the Beta cards, I'm lazy like that) seem to be reducing some of the differences between the factions. 

[Fetid Strumpet]

She is a Merc.

 

And the faction blending and homogenization, exemplified by the dual faction and infiltration mechanics destroyed any real difference between the faction's as anything other than generalities the instant those mechanics were introduced. NB could already field a sniper list by fielding Lucius. Maybe not all NB masters could, but NB as a faction certainly could. So if your opponent declared NB there was no guarantee you wouldn't be facing a gun line. I personally don't have an issue with NB getting guns.

[Silencer]

Well it comes down to the synergies that Angel Eyes potentially could have with other NB masters, what range she will have on her gun etc.

 

I heard that she will be a hench(wo)man, correct ? Or that's a wrong impression ?

[Dirial]

You heard right.

[Philosfr]

Neverborn is my favorite faction (after reading the fluff... I thought they were the cliched monster faction when just looking at the models), so any Neverborn release is a good release as far as I'm concerned.

 

I do like the melee or willpower focus of the Neverborn and always prefer melee based crews over gun lines. The playstyle of the Neverborn are the reason I've stuck with the faction. Getting a Rare 1 sniper does feel like it's blurring the lines of the faction a little bit, but it will be nice at least having a gun in the faction. I'm guessing she'll probably fit nicely with Lucius if running him as NB instead of Guild (or at least I hope so). One Rare 1 henchmen probably doesn't disrupt any balance though

[Dirial]

Especially considering that Neverborn have ranged attacks already: Beckoners, Illuminated, Tuco, Pandora... Not like it's the first one.

[yool1981]

I really love the idea of a starter set. It is difficult to introduce the game properly to new players with some of the crew boxes.

However, the main selling points the game has are the minis, which are amazing. i think that the underwhelming and static minis in the starter box are disserving the game introduction.

 

As to the feminization of Angel Eyes, I did not even notice it was a woman before it was pointed out. If this is oversexualization, maybe I'm tired and missed that point.

 

It is funny because some male players of other games reported the difficulty they had in getting into Malifaux because there was not any male powerhouse, beefy and killy in melee as there was in on other miniature games (think Butcher in Warmahordes for those familiar with this game). We tried to list the killy as well as tough masters and, except Seamus (and maybe Marcus), they are mostly women (and Seamus is not exactly the muscular type). I had never noticed this pattern until it was pointed out.

[Flint]

It is funny because some male players of other games reported the difficulty they had in getting into Malifaux because there was not any male powerhouse, beefy and killy in melee as there was in on other miniature games (think Butcher in Warmahordes for those familiar with this game). We tried to list the killy as well as tough masters and, except Seamus (and maybe Marcus), they are mostly women (and Seamus is not exactly the muscular type). I had never noticed this pattern until it was pointed out.

While there is quite wide spectrum of female characters in Malifaux, male are mostly weirdos/caricatures/old men. I have five masters and none of them is a male. The closest one from existing in Malifaux characters which I would like to see as master, just because of style and backround and without looking at abilities, is Sue but he is not even a henchman. It would be nice to see some plain melee dedicated male master, or rifleman, Roland/Axton (from Borderlands) style, maybe rogue CSA cavalry officer (ranged) or steam motorcycle gang leader (for a melee) for example. As for pin up girls in Malifaux I like that style and would like to see some more. But that's my opinion. Sales results say about what players want more than my rants or thousand posts from same three Malifaux fans.

When I first read about Angel Eyes I thought it would be he. And be the ugly one... or maybe he was The Bad one... Yes, he was The Bad. So shall we expect now The Good outcast and The Ugly errr... guild/resser/gremlin girl?

[Dirial]

 and The Ugly errr... guild/resser/gremlin girl?

 

Tuco is already in the game, and he's a Neverborn.

 

While there is quite wide spectrum of female characters in Malifaux, male are mostly weirdos/caricatures/old men.

 

There are a lot of strong males in Malifaux who are neither weird nor old: Judge, Samael, Kang, Johan... Okay, they aren't Masters, that's true. But I don't see that particularly wide spectrum of female characters you mention, either.

 

Wouldn't be opposed to a male melee Master myself. An interesting spin to the stereotypical chain-axe-wielding bald buff guy would be highly appreciated.

[zFiend]

Well we have that! Lucius! He can get quite a few hits from his sword cane with Secret Objectives.

[Dirial]

Well we have that! Lucius! He can get quite a few hits from his sword cane with Secret Objectives.

 

Lucius has everything, it's true.

[zFiend]

Lucius has everything, it's true.

True story indeed.

[Amdor]

The set seems awesome. I don't play Guild or Neverborn and I'd still like one, if only to get my hands on another delicious marksman.

 

Speaking of marksmen, I'm not convinced that Angel eyes is a woman. Skimpy clothing means nothing in my opinion when the Neverborn are in question and looking at Angel eyes' physique, their face doesn't seem too femine and I fail to see a chest on their render (a considerable one at least).

[Mason]

Speaking of marksmen, I'm not convinced that Angel eyes is a woman.

 

She is.

 

Used to be a human, too.

[Amdor]

She is.

 

Used to be a human, too.

 

Fair enough. It's just that a sexily dressed guy would've been a fun idea in my opinion.

[Math Mathonwy]

At least they have a good balance of ethnic models kicking around Malifaux. Do you know how many years Markus Brisbane was the only canonically non-white person in the entirety of the Iron Kingdoms?

There's like, two black people in all of Malifaux. I mean, yeah, they have lots of Asians and some Latinos but that's it. It's still extremely white (and Asian).

And you won't believe how racially problematic a different forum found Wong...

[r4st4f4n]

To be fair, that was John Carpenter's fault for Big Trouble in Little China. Nobody, however, took offense to Kim Cattrall being compared to a giant pig?

I hope not. I don't find Gracie a negative or offensive representation of a swine. It's a voluminous pet with a background in the game and a nerd quote in the name, like calling your dog Thor. Animals aren't offensive.