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Models that I think are good, but never see talked about anymore


Whut

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Well he's low Df high Armour so if the opponent is prepared he melts away. People kind of expect armour from Arcanists though so other factions taking him should have a higher chance of getting the most out of the armour.

 

It's such a silly fallacy about arcanists and armour. Because arcanists have lots of armour, there's a good chance that there's some armour ignoring stuff out there - agreed. But that still doesn't mean high armour isn't good (particularly since arcanists can easily have armoured target saturation). Lazarus has plenty of wounds and built in healing. He also has a very good shooting attack with solid range. So if your opponent can apply a bunch of high damage armour ignoring models against Lazarus in short order, he can be quickly negated. Alternatively stated - if you play like an idiot and feed your opponent exactly what they want, they'll win. 

 

It's easy to protect a key model with a solid ranged attack. If Lazarus gets a Vik in the face or something, then something else didn't. Almost no opponent can apply much armour ignoring, even if they include some. If they really load up on it, then 1.) there's some really good match-ups available; and 2.) it tends to lack resilience itself (eg, ronin vs shooting). 

 

Armour +2 is essentially the best general defence you can have in the game. Better than hard to kill. Better than hard to wound. Better than impossible to wound. Better than terrifying. Better than manipulative. Generally better than a slightly better defence. If you're complaining about Lazarus being vulnerable, I'm assuming you're taking lists built around exclusively rotten belles and flesh constructs.

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He's nigh invulnerable, 

 

If you're complaining about Lazarus being vulnerable, 

I'm not actually, I said there were counters to his defences. Mostly I think "nigh invulnerable" is gross exaggeration. Anything can be killed, some units have it easier vs certain other units and manoeuvring to get the best match ups is a large part of the game (of most war games really).

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Someone said that 3/3/6 isn't a great damage track. Having a high minimum dmg and it being the same as your moderate is pretty great in my book.

 

As for the "just bring armor ignore" argument, it's not something you can rely on, unless your key models does it, like the viks or every neverborn enforcer. In our games he usually dictate movement in the side of the table he's placed in (kinda like overwatch), and if he has the mobile toolkit as well, then he can really put out the hurt. He takes a lot of ressources to bring down and prompts a lot of stress on the other side of the table.

 

He's really good.

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Someone said that 3/3/6 isn't a great damage track. Having a high minimum dmg and it being the same as your moderate is pretty great in my book.

 

As for the "just bring armor ignore" argument, it's not something you can rely on, unless your key models does it, like the viks or every neverborn enforcer. In our games he usually dictate movement in the side of the table he's placed in (kinda like overwatch), and if he has the mobile toolkit as well, then he can really put out the hurt. He takes a lot of ressources to bring down and prompts a lot of stress on the other side of the table.

 

He's really good.

 

I did in fact say that 3/3/6 is not a great damage track and in the context of the model and faction it might not even be a good damage track. If you are looking at just Lazarus on his own merits 3/3/6 might as well be 3/3/3 unless he is focusing shots. For 11ss you can just do better imo. Combine this with the fact that cover is fairly abundant in most games he needs to focus just to reliably hit. Assuming a 5 turn game and needing to get into position turn 1, you are looking at an 11ss model that will shoot 4 times.  

 

As I said previously if you are generating free focus, have a toolkit, or are generating free AP Lazarus gets much better.

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Someone said that 3/3/6 isn't a great damage track. Having a high minimum dmg and it being the same as your moderate is pretty great in my book.

 

 

Personally I view having a moderate that matches the weak is a bad thing, especially when there are blasts involved. It puts a lot more pressure on my high end cards rather than my moderate cards. A weak of 3 is good. A moderate of 3 is probably average, but looks poor when it matches the weak.

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Personally I view having a moderate that matches the weak is a bad thing, especially when there are blasts involved. It puts a lot more pressure on my high end cards rather than my moderate cards. A weak of 3 is good. A moderate of 3 is probably average, but looks poor when it matches the weak.

Its a bad thing for models with dmg resembling 1/2/6, where low and moderate is largely insignificant and severe is fantastic. However, 3/3B/6BB is nothing to scoff at. It provides a great minimum, a small bonus of a blast for achieving moderate, and a large boost from achieving severe. I'd like it a hell of a lot more if the toolkit could give it + to attack as well (to ignore cover) but that's just me, I've always liked reliability more than potential.

As is, it's a model you take when you see the board and there's plenty of clear LoS vectors available. Though to be fair, if you have two severe cards in hand, a single 6BB shot into an enemy or two is effective enough in my book.

Also taking it with Colette means it can never get stuck in combat. It can always get prompted out and follow up with 3 shots to the face.

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The best way to play lazarus in my opinion is to do it with Tara(resser), you give it fast/bury at start of turn 1, then out activate your opponent and move it into position in bottom of 1, pop it out and shoot 4 times due to fast. With decaying aura you can shoot at enemy masters with impunity.

 

The kicker is at start of turn 2 you fight for initiative with your + flip. You can bury/move/unbury and fire 4 more shots again.

 

You were able to position yourself 2x and got 8 shots with a weak of 3 model with decaying aura. All that movement was before your opponents so the only thing he can do is "anticipate" and hold back deep in his deployment.

 

I don't think arcanists have much to offer the poor champ and prompting him you could be prompting/ howard/ joss/ mechrider or even a Cerberus with infinity trigger.

 

Just because he is merc he does not have the same value to all factions. Ressers and Neverborn love him as he adds durable range support to the faction that does not have access to it.

 

Sometimes we all fall into a mistake of trying to build too much synergy we give up on simpler and stronger choices.

 

My 2c

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Fire Gamin.

Last couple of weeks one basically dropped a mature nephilim over the course of two turns. Then at a tournament in one activation with the help of the red joker managed to deal 7 damage to mcmourning + 2 burning, 4 damage to a canine remains killing it and 4 damage to a flesh construct. Later that same game one shot into combat hitting friendly kaeris who ss prevented the damage but gaining burning to heal at the end of the turn and blasted onto and killed a necropunk. I'm definitely going to play a game or two with six of them once I buy the new kaeris box just for shits and giggles.

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  • 3 months later...

Hoarcat Prides - other factions would kill for these shooting resistant, Manipulative, decent Df, Weak damage 3 (as long as you have more than 2 wounds), self healing, devouring minions. I remember people calling them OP at one point, why don't people talk about using them more? Are metal gamin and Rail Workers just THAT much better? The only weakness these guys have seem to be focused shooting attacks for 6 damage.

I can't speak to any of the other models because I've only played one (partial) game so far, but I made it a point to buy a box of Hoarcats to go with my Rasputina crew - I like the models and I like how they can play off her crew's magick.

Last weekend was my first (partial) game and I played against an Ophelia crew. Out of all the models, I think the ones that seemed to swing things mostly in my favor were the 'Cats. I had my Wendigo advanced midfield and put up Ice Pillars to isolate Raphael. Rasputina was in range to drop December's Curse on him and since it was near the end of the turn, I'd essentially been saving up high cards (7 cards in deck to start via Upgrade) while having my opponent down to very few - got off full damage on Raphael (mitigated by his stats), with blasts able to extend out far enough to damage another member of the Gremlin crew. Rasputina cast through the Wendigo to keep December's Touch on the kitties, since he wasn't close enough to get into Ml range himself. 

Raphael shot his Big Honkin Gun at my Hoarcats, who hadn't yet activated. He couldn't get past Manipulative on his first shot. Even with Dirty Cheater and Dumb Luck, the negative twists from hard cover they were near plus their Small Target gave them Weak damage - the +2 Armor left them unhurt.

In return I walked them walked right up, and with me having saved up a high Ram, got the Rip Throat trigger on their attack and the extra +1 dam for minimal wounds - took Raphael off the table through synergy with the rest of the crew (I figgered an outright attack was a better choice than trying to Devour).

Granted it was only a 35SS game and I have limited experience, but they have decent movement and charge and pair well with Rasputina's crew IMO.

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