Da Git Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 For me, the main reason I like the ability more is that it should be easier to balance as each model stands on its own than if if it's a condition, it gets much more powerful the more models you have dishing it out. At the moment, I'm writing a bit of a back story for each model. I'm also going to ask Justin for a template so we can make our own cards (after all this is done, hopefully we can get it published for the Black Friday Chronicles. After we're happy with the cards, I also think we should try & get Justin's input and help play-testing the models (as there's only 3 of us & I don't have much time). I'd like us to remain in charge of the project, but the extra input would help a lot. What do you think? For Mercury. I think he needs to lose one or two abilities or actions, at the moment he has 8 abilities/actions which is Master territory. My vote would either be (in no particular order): I Want to Break FreeDon't Stop me nowGive Me the Prize Sure, we can add a TN somewhere... maybe make it a Df duel for the Condition one. Can add it to I Want to Break Free if we keep it. What about adding it to Under Pressure: Target must pass a Df 12 duel or receive Slow. Then Bake in the Trigger and make it a Df 11 duel to receive Paralysed. Or something else? Also, the whole crew comes to exactly 50ss which is great! Some crews I'd like to try are In Theme - Mr. Cooper - NmM.NG, WiFG, ,3 Monkeys, Baritone Lola, either Mercury or Lizzy, 2 Mummerettes Arcanist - Mr. Cooper - WtmN, 1 Slate Ridge - Feegee, 1 December Acolyte, a Tanky minion with HoMirrors, a gunsmith, Cheap stuff Neverborn - Mr. Cooper - WtmN, 2 Illuminated - one with Chimera, 1 with Turk, 1 Stitched, 2 Madnesses, Cheap stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalkris Posted July 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 Maybe, re: Mercury, we can redo IW2BF to turn it into a simple ability instead of a trigger: I Want To Break Free: Whenever this model succeeds an opposed duel in which it is the defender, all models in P2 must succeed a TN10Df duel or be pushed 2" directly away from this model. It's a bit stronger in that it goes off against things with a Wp resist too, but it isn't functionally better, simply because the foe has every chance at winning the opposed duel and staying where they want to be. As for removing something, I think "Who Wants To Live Forever" could be cut. I don't think it's entirely necessary on a glass-cannon. It feels like a bit of an action trap, unless we buffed the healing by a ton (but I don't think that's worth the slot anyhow). So, talking about the inevitable playtest (which talking is what we SHOULD start doing ), I have in my arsenal of models, the following, playable in The Dark Carnival: Arcanist Masters/Henchmen (for use with Arcanist/DF-Arc/Nvb playtestees): Mei Feng + Emberling Arcanist less-than-masters (for use with Mr. Cooper-as-Arcanist): Arcane Effigy Rail Worker x3 Metal Gamin x3 Willie Rail Golem Soulstone Miner Arcanist general upgrades Neverborn Masters/Henchmen (for use with Neverborn/DF-Arc/Nvb playtestees): Pandora Jakob Lynch Collodi + Marionettes The Dreamer + Lord Chompy Bits + Daydreams Lucius + Scribe Candy Hungering Darkness Neverborn less-than-masters (for use with Mr. Cooper-as-Neverborn): Teddy Baby Kade Insidious Madness x2 Sorrow x3 Alp x3 Coppelius Illuminated x3 Beckoner x2 Mr. Graves Mr. Tannen Doppelganger Wicked Doll x3 Primordial Magic Lelu Lilitu Stitched Together x2 The Depleted x3 Neverborn general upgrades OOF Models which may be used with any above masters (in proper factions): Kang (Mei Feng) Guild Guard x2 (Lucius) Guild Lawyer x2 (Lucius) Captain Dashel (Lucius) Guild Austringer x2 (Lucius) Guild Rifleman x3 (Lucius) Brutal Effigy (Collodi) Carrion Effigy (Collodi) Arcane Effigy (Collodi) Hodgepodge Effigy (Collodi) Mercenaries: Hannah Sue Lazarus Freikorpsmann x2 Freikorps Librarian Freikorps Specialist Freikorps Trapper Bishop Killjoy ~~~~~ I also pretty much have all the stat cards and upgrades I'd need from both factions + Mercs + OOF models usable (due to owning Books 1 and 2 in the Second Edition), so I can improvise with models of the right base size if need be. I suppose we'll need to do this for Wave 3 anyhow lol So, with regards to the Wyrd Developers: I think it wouldn't hurt to ask for their input, and maybe even a slot in a future issue of the Wyrd Chronicles, but I can't say I can expect a ton from them, as they are very busy people (especially right now with GenCon inching steadily closer). However, Fetid Strumpet advised that I may want to contact user SpiralingCadaver and ask him for templates. I sent him an email today so hopefully we'll have an answer soon. But yeah, still ask Justin. I think I will also shoot him an email. I think I may need to sign a disclaimer for the ability to make the stat cards though (which I wouldn't be adverse to XD). I'd love to read your backstory blurbs if possible, soon. Getting this project into the Chronicles would be so cool! ~Lil Kalki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Git Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 If you pm me your email, I'll be happy to send them (not sure they're ready for public viewing yet!) Also Solicitor 6 What do you think about the cards an upgrades? Especially the Welcome to my Nightmare ones as they were your brainchild. What about this for Mercury? I've dropped him back to 8ss, but removed Who Wants to Live Forever & Don't Stop Me Now. I've also added Df duels to I Want to Break Free & Under Pressure. Thoughts? Does he need to go back up to 10 wds to compensate (I'd rather put back WWtLForever, even if we keep him at 9)? Mercury, The Strongman 8SS Arcanist Living, Enforcer, Rare 1, CARNY Df 4, Wp 5, Wd 8, wk 4, Ch 6, Ht 2 Abilities Headlong Charge: When this model takes a Charge Action, it must make a single 2 AP Attack Action instead of two AP 2 Attack Actions. I Want To Break Free: Whenever this model succeeds in an opposed duel in which it is the defender, all enemy models within p2 must pass a TN 10 Df duel or be pushed 2” away from this model. Impossible to Wound: Damage flips against this model gain -. Damage flips against this model may not be cheated. Attack Actions (2) Barbell Spin (Ml 5 / Rst: Df / Rg: 2): Target suffers 3/5/7 damage. After resolving this action, this model must make a Barbell Spin Attack Action against another target in Range until all valid targets have been Attacked. Each model may only be attacked once taking this action. (1) Under Pressure (Ml 6c / Rst: Df / Rg: 1): Target suffers 2/2/3 damage and must pass a TN 12 Df duel or gain the Slow Condition. c Ice, Ice, Baby!: If the target had the Slow Condition before this action was taken, it must pass a TN 10 Df Duel or gain the Paralysed Condition. Tactical Actions (1) Give Me the Prize!: Target an enemy scheme market within 2. This Scheme Market becomes friendly to this crew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalkris Posted July 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 I think we can put him up to 10Wd, but we can also put him at 9Wd and up the TN for "Ice, Ice, Baby!" by either 1 or 2 (whatever's balanced) to keep it in line with the slow duel. I feel that would compensate pretty well. At that point, I feel that we could do what comes next - playtest! That is, as long as other things aren't needing to be factored in - I'm still waiting on a reply from various sources re: stat cards, for example. XD ~Lil Kalki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solicitor 6 Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 Sorry for the delay in responding. Finally had a moment to actually respond. Again, computer is not letting the quote work, so let's see how this goes. Welcome To My Nightmare -I think the upgrade is good with Run Away With Me limited to Minions, and then adding the Smoke and Mirrors to it. Or maybe placing the Encore trigger for May I Direct Your Attention here. -I can be down with having the three upgrades with the Nephilim, Mimic, and Woe applying to Arcanist models and Construct, Showgirl, and Beast applying to Neverborn. HOWEVER, I do prefer 6 individual upgrades and not restricting them by faction. I think we 3 (me, Da Git, and Kalkris) are in agreement "The Haze Only Gets Thicker" ability is better than the Hazy Condition. Mr. Cooper -For "Nothing's Free," should it be at the start of the Activation, and the suit be applicable for the duration of the Activation (with the cost of one Wound)? Does the wording as it is come from another model? For it to last the Activation, could add language that the damage cannot be prevented (to prevent someone from taking the action and essentially spending one soulstone for damage prevention to get three automatic suits) Flying Monkeys -Should have the CARNY characteristic -Not sure if they should be Minions/Peons. Go with Minion for now, and see how they shake out from the initial playtest Lola -Funny thought came into my head. What about giving him "Pounce?" The idea of a Belly Flop Pounce... But he seems to have enough Abilities and Actions already. Lizzy -I think "Lit Cigarette" sounds better then "Burnt Cigarette." Maybe a trigger that gives a model "Burning 1" off it? Mercury -For "ice, ice, baby," if going with the TN 10Df duel requirement on the trigger (modified by The Haze Only Gets Thicker), I don't think we need the prerequisite of "Slow" before giving the target Paralyzed. Too many requirements -I think we can put him at cost 9 stones with 9 wounds, Hard to Wound (instead of Impossible to Wound), and bring back Who Wants To Live Forever. Or drop Hard/Impossible to Wound altogether and just go with Who Wants to Live Forever (it's such a unique action, I am rather enamoured with it). If the heal flip off this is going to be just 1/2/3 and he doesn't have Hard/Impossible to Wound, his Df should probably be base 5. I think Df 4 is fine with WWTLF, but the heal should be 2/3/4 then. It is a high price to permanently lower a model's Df. -Also, what about getting rid of "I Want To Break Free" and returning "Don't Stop Me Now," but with the requirement being that all valid targets within P2 must pass a TN10-12 Df Duel (obviously affected by The Haze Only Gets Thicker), or be the subject of a Barbell Spin attack before Mercury's removed from play? Overall, I think they are looking fantastic and are probably near the point where we need to give them some testing to see what works and what is multi-penguin car traffic accident. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalkris Posted July 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 You know, I'm just thinking... We have no Swampfiend representation at all! I kind of think Feegee Mermaid should grant Swampfiend instead of Woe (a la Jake the Alligator Boy, a similar gaff) lmao - but that said, I'm also cool with what we've got. I think a model having Pounce is a great idea, and I too like Lola for that, except we will have trouble fitting it on the card. Wshful thinking perhaps.... Lit Cigarette does sound better. Being that you are so into WW2LF?, Solicitor 6, we could definitely consider replacing I2W with it. Base 5 Df makes sense to me, too. Why don't we look at the Necropunks for this, though, and make the Df decreasing temporary? Don't Stop Me Now as a pseudo Slow To De effect sounds fun too. lol So, with the time we have (factoring in maybe a week for template rendering), we will have 6 weeks for thematic, 6 for Arcanists and 6 for Neverborn. I want to split it like that alternating by week: Week 1 (7/6-7/12) - Thematic initial - look over crew to start, changes can be made Week 2 (7/13-7/19) - Arcanist initial - no changes until Neverborn initial ends - Wave 1 Week 3 (7/20-7/26) - Neverborn initial - changes applied at end - Wave 1 Week 4 (7/27-8/2)- Thematic #2 - look over crew with changes, changes can be made that do not override W1-3 Week 5 (8/3-8/9) - Break for GenCon recuperation Week 6 (8/10-8/16) - Arcanist #2 - no changes until Neverborn initial ends - Wave 1 Week 7 (8/17-8/23) - Neverborn #2 - changes from W4-6 applied at end - Wave 1 Week 8 (8/24-8/30) - Thematic #3 - make sure nothing degenerate affects thematic crew Week 9 (8/31-9/6) - Arcanist #3 - make sure nothing degenerate affects Arcanist faction - Wave 1 Week 10 (9/7-9/13) - Neverborn #3 - make sure nothing degenerate affects Neverborn faction - Wave 1 Week 11 (9/14-9/20) - Thematic #4 - Repeat Week 1 Week 12 (9/21-9/27) - Arcanist #4 - Repeat Week 2, add Wave 2 Week 13 (9/28-10/4) - Neverborn #4 - Repeat Week 3, add Wave 2 Week 14 (10/5-10/11) - Thematic #5 - Repeat Week 4 Week 15 (10/12-10/18) - Arcanist #5 - Repeat Week 6, add Wave 2 Week 16 (10/19-10/25) - Neverborn #5 - Repeat Week 7, add Wave 2 Week 17 (10/26-11/1) - Thematic #6 - Repeat Week 8 Week 18 (11/2-11/8) - Arcanist #6 - Repeat Week 9, Add Waves 2 & 3 Week 19 (11/9-11/15) - Neverborn #6 - Repeat Week 10, Add Waves 2 & 3 Week 20 (11/16-11/22) - Final - Done! I am hoping this is enough time to test a single thematic crew's options in 2 factions for 3 waves. Thoughts on trajectory? ~Lil Kalki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalkris Posted July 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 At this point, I have created a dropbox for use in creating and editing stat cards as needed! I PMed you, Solicitor 6 and Da Git. We are coming down to the wire for the brainstorming stage of this wonderful journey. I am proud of everyone involved. Credit thus far goes to: Manic Mouse (major idea contributor) Crush_Jansen (major idea contributor) Solicitor 6 (major idea contributor) Da Git (major idea contributor) SpiralingCadaver (for providing stat card templating) Phinn (idea contributor) Dirial (idea contributor) Fetid Strumpet (for recommending I contact SpiralingCadaver) Patzer (idea contributor) Victoria (idea contributor) Bstorz (idea contributor) Clockwork Top Hat (idea contributor) Jafar (idea contributor) Adran (idea contributor) TimH (idea contributor) and myself, as well as anyone who voted. I am bringing this up for reference in crediting the project as a whole, for if we can manage to get this in the Chronicles or anywhere else. ~Lil Kalki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Git Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 How about this for Mercury, up his wounds to 9, remove ItW & give him these back Ability: Don’t Stop Me Now: If this model is reduced by a x Attack Action, this model may immediately make a (2) x Attack Action against the enemy model. Action: (0) Who Wants to Live Forever?: This model lowers its Df by 2 until the end of the turn to perform a 2/3/4 healing flip. Up his cost back up to 9? I'd also be keen to drop the Monkeys down to insignificant/Peons to save points, 3 of them are an awesome flanking force that can win games on there on... One to playtest. I'm worried Thin Lizzy has too much one her... Anything we can scrap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Git Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 Alright, all the cards are done, no real changes other than adding a charge to No More Mr. Nice Guy. Kalkris, Since we're moving into the Playtest phase, do you want to start a new thread? Maybe Post 1 put all the rules in Spoilers, Post 2 your schedule. I'll try to reserve post 3 for me! I don't think we should do any changes but here's what I'd like people to playtest (I have a 10month old and am the only Malifaux player in Kyoto, so it's a tad difficult for me to get games in... I'll do my best!) Flying Monkeys - 3 of these guys look like a really good flanking force that can do it all, they can teleport each other up the field, they've got a good attack & most importantly, they're significant Minions. Is this scheme marker potential a problem? I'd be happy for them to drop back to Insignificant Peons (I know the poll voted the other way, but it was a close run thing...). They could then be dropped down to 3ss each which would be great as it meant the whole box set can be fielded at once with a few upgrades! (I really like this idea as its a limited box & should be fielded!) Oddity Upgrades - I'd like Welcome to My Nightmare to be 1ss because I want it to be a valid option if you don't take any Oddity upgrades (indeed you can't if you only take Showgirl and Carny models). I also feel that the upgrades are pointed right at the moment at 1,2,3 +1 for WTMN If we leave it at 2ss, then how are the oddity upgrades? What feels right/strong/weak? Thin Lizzy - does she have too much on her for a 6ss model? Should we cut a (0)? Mercury - How does Barbell Swing go in the game? They're the main points Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirce Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 For Thin Lizzy, I feel like "Hands Off The Beard" shouldn't be a (0) but that could just be me. ETA- noticed this thread had moved after I posted. What can I say? n00bs gonna n00b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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