Carcosa Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 So, I played a game against the Showgirls the other day and lost (which does not bother me) and when my opponent asked what I thought of them, the only thing I thought was a bit over the top was prompt. Not the action in of itself, but the fact that you can target the same friendly minion 3 times with it, and it gives a 3" push as well. What do the Arcanist players themselves thing of prompt? Should it be limited to once per target like most other obey style actions? Could it do with a penalty like Lucius' ability (call it stage fright ) but not as bad as paralyse, or if you fail the target becomes immune to the ability for the rest of the turn. Or is it perfectly fine? Thoughts anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 It's a very, very strong action. Very. I doubt it will be errata'd at the moment, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carcosa Posted June 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Oh, I doubt it will be errated either Dirial, I will just be more aware of it in the future. I am just curious if even the Colette players think it is a little OTT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeton Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 It's an action whose value is directly proportional to the relevant value of your other models in the vicinity. In that sense, it's quite different from Obey, which can also be used to secure value based on the strength of the opponent's models. When you've got Miss Step or similar nearby, yes, it's a ludicrously powerful action. Once she's dead and you've only got a Mannequin to work with, no, it's not particularly spectacular. Colette's strength is tied to her crew much more tightly than any other Master (even Lucius or McCabe). That's a double-edged sword which can be used against her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carcosa Posted June 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Here's the thing, I -don't- see it as too powerful. Giving up a masters AP to give Langston or the Duet a 3" push and an AP is fine, especially for a support master like Colette, it is their bread and butter. What I am adverse to is being able to target the same -model- on a consistant basis. Even Lucius is limited to non stringer minions, once per turn, and can give other benefits to replace the 3" move -if you get the suit- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joediamond Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Howard Langston Prompted three times is what causes these Prompt threads. I think the spell itself isn't a problem. Like Carcosa said, you have to remember you are spending your master's AP for it. What makes it really golden that she's got so many good targets for it. I'm a little surprised it didn't follow the style of her other rules/abilities (i.e. Target Minion or Showgirl). I don't know. I can't read the design team's minds. But what I CAN do is take Cassandra and a Malifaux Child for 2 extra prompts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 I have said my piece on prompt multiple times but I'll say it again. It is freaking ridiculous and shouln't have come out of beta as it is. Majority of the others that are relatable to prompt, obey comes to mind limit the attack portion to once per turn Prompt doesn't, it also allows you to push and draw a card with a trigger. Seriously. No. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 I have said my piece on prompt multiple times but I'll say it again. It is freaking ridiculous and shouln't have come out of beta as it is. Majority of the others that are relatable to prompt, obey comes to mind limit the attack portion to once per turn Prompt doesn't, it also allows you to push and draw a card with a trigger. Seriously. No. And needing a lower card than the others. Colette's strength is tied to her crew much more tightly than any other Master (even Lucius or McCabe). That's a double-edged sword which can be used against her. Agree on McCabe. Don't agree on Lucius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carcosa Posted June 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 See, I don't even mind the Cassandra/understudy + Child/just like you section of it, that needs more investment of SS's (even if you would probably do it anyway) but the ability to do it over and over again on the one -MODEL-. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carcosa Posted June 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 @ Dirial. I agree, Lucius buffs his crew, but if he dies, well, he dies, and the crew tends not to suffer all that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 I think that it speaks in volumes of the power level of prompt alone that a master who pretty much gets full vp once the pool includes any scheme marker related schemes is also one of the best in reckoning. While also that particular master being nigh unkillable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 @ Dirial. I agree, Lucius buffs his crew, but if he dies, well, he dies, and the crew tends not to suffer all that much. I disagree with this so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joediamond Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 I have said my piece on prompt multiple times but I'll say it again. I think you should be limited to commenting on the same ability to once per turn, Zfiend. ... Sorry, carry on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carcosa Posted June 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 @ Zfeind Start a thread in the guild forum, I will jump in 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 @ Dirial. I agree, Lucius buffs his crew, but if he dies, well, he dies, and the crew tends not to suffer all that much. I disagree with this so much. I do too, but I also don't get how Lucius dying connects to his power level being directly related to the crew he brings. But as this isn't about Lucius power level, I'll just say I find Colette to be more crew independent than Lucius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 I Agree with zFiend. I've been playing a lot of Molly lately, and the more I play her the more I personally feel her best ability, even more than summoning, is her 0 action from her limited upgrades to give an ap to a spirit/horror within 10". I'd honestly give up her summoning for the ability to keep doing such. And that action is only a vastly weaker version of prompt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carcosa Posted June 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 What part of Zfeind's posts do you agree with Strumpet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 I have said my piece on prompt multiple times but I'll say it again. It is freaking ridiculous and shouln't have come out of beta as it is. Majority of the others that are relatable to prompt, obey comes to mind limit the attack portion to once per turn Prompt doesn't, it also allows you to push and draw a card with a trigger. Seriously. No. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patzer Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 I agree with this a lot too. Brace yourself everyone, you are going to get Promt post Gencon! You can look forward to that it is both by Colette and the new Nightmare crew, so you will in theory at least face two crews, which is nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Agreed. It makes Colette a "proxy" for any model which is ridiculous... Surprised this made it out of beta... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 To be clear if that was Colette's thing prompt would be super powerful but it would be ok. Probably. What makes it hideous is the unkillable nature of colette coupled with her movement shennanigans and her scheme marker abilities. A lot of the wave 1 masters tht were difficult to kill and had personal attacks got limited in the ability to interact, because being able to, at a distance, put down a single scheme marker wherever they wanted, at the time, was considered way too powerful. I really wonder what changed to allow Colette to slip through as is. Although to be fair she isn't as totally dominating as last edition, so that's something. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khro Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 I think it is strong, but it isn't broken or OP. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 To be clear if that was Colette's thing prompt would be super powerful but it would be ok. Probably. What makes it hideous is the unkillable nature of colette coupled with her movement shennanigans and her scheme marker abilities. A lot of the wave 1 masters tht were difficult to kill and had personal attacks got limited in the ability to interact, because wing able to at a distance put down a single scheme marker wherever they wanted, at the time, was considered way too powerful. I really wonder what changed to allow Colette to slip through as is. Although to be fair she isn't as totally dominating as last edition, so that's something. I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 I look forward to finding out when I pick up dark carnival at gencon 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 My only complaint is that, as a pretty dedicated Lucius player, Colette does everything he does better. Friendly AP? She needs a lower card, doesn't risk paralyzing the model, doesn't care about suits, and (most importantly) doesn't need a crew full of horribly fragile, slow models to make use of it. Free soulstones? She gets fewer, but she doesn't need as many and she doesn't shred her own models to get them. Annoyingly hard to kill? If you can't ignore triggers don't even bother. Rapid redeployment? Her place effect isn't limited to once per turn and doesn't require all three of her AP (generally Lucius wants two walk actions before Lackey's). Marker generation? Well, they both do it in their sleep but Colette gets more out of her marker spam (survivability, mobility, extra AP) and can generally put the markers where she wants them. I should make it clear that I'm not saying Lucius is bad - I've gotten over that phase with him - just that Colette is Lucius without the restrictions, and that's a problem. I think that the masters would be on par with each other if Issue Command could target non-Austringer Minions, Mimics, and Guardsmen and if Prompt was limited to Minions and Showgirls. Prompt is easier to get off and comes with the 3" push built in that I wish to god was a trigger on Issue command so it makes sense that its application should be (slightly) more limited - and of course Showgirls would mean she could still prompt spam Coryphee, Cassandra, and the (horrible, oh god the horror) Duet. The change to Issue Command would bring Lucy more in line with other support masters (McCabe, Guild McMourning, Colette, Tara, even secondary AP generators like Molly, Nicodem, etc.) by letting him bring a more viable crew to the table. That's just my two cents, but seeing Colette on the table always makes me wonder why Lucius came out of Beta handcuffed to minions and she didn't. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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