SurreyLee Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 So, i've been playing Neverborn predominantly for the last 6 months and now fancy a dabble elsewhere. I picked up a beautifully painted Hamelin crew with 8 rats, 3 stolen, 2 Rat Kings, Obedient Wretch, Nix, 3 Stolen and 2 Rat Catchers....standard fare it seems. I've also got Killjoy, Gunslinger, Hannah, Strongarm, Johanna, Lazarus and soon to be the VIKs set to play with too. I came over here to look for some Hamelin threads and there aren't that many and the few there are bemoan his rat-generate play style. So, why the lack of Hamelin love over other Outcast Masters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 Its certainly not because he is bad! I myself am not fond of playing against him because I get bored during all of the activations. So I have not gotten into him myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebarbalag Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 I think it's probably a combination of difficulty/annoyance in play (that's a lot to keep track of, games can drag on, speedy play requires a level of thought and concentration beyond an ordinary game), and his plastics aren't out yet. I'm sure he'll be widely discussed when his plastics hit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clockwork Top Hat Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 I like him - will probably get him if they release new plastics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 I love Hamelin. <3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishSausage Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 he is one of the most stone intensive masters in the game, he "requires" you to spend 4 stones to play him correctly. The moment you swallow that pill, he is a monster that summons an 8ss model a turn and his crew can easily double that. For that reason all you need is the stolen as well as the wretch to get the bus going, you should hire models that provide dmg output or control. I found 2 trappers, librarian, and hannah to be very good start for him. He excels at controlling your opponents choices, but he is not very fun to play against as most turns rely heavily of him out activating his opponent through rat activations, followup by a good strong 1-2 punch. Rinse and repeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patzer Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 he "requires" you to spend 4 stones to play him correctly. I must have played him wrong then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 he is one of the most stone intensive masters in the game, he "requires" you to spend 4 stones to play him correctly. I'm not sure that's actually true. It's certainly not how I've been playing him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurreyLee Posted June 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 Ooh, okay, for those involved in the thread and that do play him, how do you do it that differs from the 4SS must avenue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 It depends upon the strategy and scheme, of course, but in a general sense, I just have Hamelin summon a Stolen a turn and keep them nearby for protection as he moves around. Usually I run him with The Plague, The Piper, and either Survivalist or Tools of the Tyrant (depending upon if it's a kill game or a scheme game). These let Hamelin prevent the enemy from charging in a large bubble around him and grants him a trigger on his Pipes attack to hand out Blighted. Depending upon Survivalist or Tools, he becomes either very annoying to kill or a giant bubble of Interact annoyance. Generally, Hamelin uses his Pipes to pull models closer and out of position, giving them the Blight early and letting it tick upwards. Sometimes he gets into melee to spread the Blight a bit faster with his Taint trigger, but mostly he's just a giant denial piece that keeps the enemy locked down until it's time to start erasing models with Bleeding Disease. Rats get summoned when stuff dies around him, so there's a bit of summoning, and when he's at three Stolen I'll often sacrifice one for rats before Hamelin summons a replacement, but for the most part, the summoning is handled by his crew (Wretch, Rat Catchers), rather than Hamelin himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosfr Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 Our group just finished up an achievement league where one of the players ran Hamelin most of the time. I think the model aesthetics have something to do with the lack of interest in him as well. We had several new players and interested people around as we played, and they ooo'd and ahhh'd over a lot of the plastic crews. But Hamelin, the rat-catchers, the wretch... all of them are pretty "plain" in comparison. Plus... rats and disease aren't a very "sexy" way to win. Many newer players gravitate towards the bigger, cooler, named models. It's fun to watch Killjoy go on a spree, or to see the terror in your opponents face when Nekima comes flying over their beat sticks and lands in the middle of the squishier support pieces. Swarming them under piles of rats (that you need to go find piles of them in metal) is less interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishSausage Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 every turn hamelin NEEDs to summon 2 stolen, as they will turn into a rat king the following turn. This means at costs of 2x medium cards and a stone and a 0 you get a free rat-king turn 2 3 4 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 every turn hamelin NEEDs to summon 2 stolen, as they will turn into a rat king the following turn. I just disagree that this is necessary. It's certainly one way to go with him, but a lot of times, I'd rather have those Stolen and Soulstones around for other purposes. From the perspective of an opponent facing that sort of strategy, all it takes to take down the rat factory is a dude with a range weapon; if one of the Stolen gets killed (which is stupidly easy), then you're only getting one Rat out of the deal per Stolen. Sure, you could hide Hamelin to keep the Stolen safe, but as an opponent, if my opponent's master is hiding from me, I'm usually going to win that game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zinc Lich Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 Our group just finished up an achievement league where one of the players ran Hamelin most of the time. I think the model aesthetics have something to do with the lack of interest in him as well. We had several new players and interested people around as we played, and they ooo'd and ahhh'd over a lot of the plastic crews. But Hamelin, the rat-catchers, the wretch... all of them are pretty "plain" in comparison. Plus... rats and disease aren't a very "sexy" way to win. Many newer players gravitate towards the bigger, cooler, named models. It's fun to watch Killjoy go on a spree, or to see the terror in your opponents face when Nekima comes flying over their beat sticks and lands in the middle of the squishier support pieces. Swarming them under piles of rats (that you need to go find piles of them in metal) is less interesting. I suppose I am somewhat of an aberration, then. The idea of those fancy named models being buried beneath an enormous heaving mass of yellow teeth and greasy fur before surrendering to their inevitable demise makes me cackle like a Bond villain. I am really excited to see the renders for Hamelin's crew for M2E; I passed on him in 1E because he was irreparably broken, but Nix, the Obedient Wretch, and the Rat Catchers were some of my favorite models. There's a metal box set at the local gaming store that is calling my name... every turn hamelin NEEDs to summon 2 stolen, as they will turn into a rat king the following turn. This means at costs of 2x medium cards and a stone and a 0 you get a free rat-king turn 2 3 4 5 Disagree. Rat Kings are fine models, but they are certainly not going to win any awards for being the best at anything. I view them more as a penalty for enemies not controlling rat infestations than anything particularly vital to my game plan. I *have* used Soulstones to double-summon Stolen, but only when I am confident that the enemy doesn't have a way to scalpel them out and only if I see a good use for the resulting Rat King. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lusciousmccabe Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 I'd say they could win an award for eating scheme markers at range, that and doing lots while slow. In a marker heavy game double stolen the first few turns is a very good idea since it makes rat kings nigh inevitable and they basically just wipe up markers later on. There's other situations where Hamelin doesn't want to do much summoning, but it's still an important trick for him. I think you want to point a finger at Hamelin for eating stones, his upgrades and pitiful pool are where you want to start. I more or less plan for a 40 stone crew these days and then see what I end up with. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 I think you want to point a finger at Hamelin for eating stones, his upgrades and pitiful pool are where you want to start. Also known as, "He's an Outcast master." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnternalVoid Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 I did not get into Hamelin in 1.5 because I was already hated in my group, did not need to be the 'Bully' on top of it. I thought about it in M2E to pick him up and take him for a spin... but I dislike his metal model. My thought was if I honestly was going to get him I would have to get his Avatar model as I like the look of that Hamelin better. But the cost of that and the rest of the models was enough to keep me away from that for now. Instead I have picked up other faction stuff. I am one of those sad sort that has a couple factions and always feeling the lure of other masters in other factions to drag me further. I have a hard time resisting the Lure of the Pipes of Malifaux. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uktena Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Most tested Master for my friends and I in the Beta. Many of his games were punishingly brutal endurance trudges for all parties. I think that sort of play tends to arise from his style of high volume summon-cycle shenanigans. That said, I don't think it's unplayable or broken, just nice to go home before the store closes most nights. That's my opinion on why we don't see a ton of Hamelin play. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lusciousmccabe Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 I did not get into Hamelin in 1.5 because I was already hated in my group, did not need to be the 'Bully' on top of it. I thought about it in M2E to pick him up and take him for a spin... but I dislike his metal model. My thought was if I honestly was going to get him I would have to get his Avatar model as I like the look of that Hamelin better. But the cost of that and the rest of the models was enough to keep me away from that for now. Instead I have picked up other faction stuff. I am one of those sad sort that has a couple factions and always feeling the lure of other masters in other factions to drag me further. I have a hard time resisting the Lure of the Pipes of Malifaux. This is exactly what I did. The avatar was pretty pricey but it's a gorgeous model and very straightforward to magnetize/pin so you have a 30mm and 50mm version. I managed to grab one right before it was discontinued, if you can find one second-hand I doubt you'll regret it. Most tested Master for my friends and I in the Beta. Many of his games were punishingly brutal endurance trudges for all parties. I think that sort of play tends to arise from his style of high volume summon-cycle shenanigans. That said, I don't think it's unplayable or broken, just nice to go home before the store closes most nights. That's my opinion on why we don't see a ton of Hamelin play. I find Hamelin isn't that dreary to play against/as in close games. If you can keep the rat numbers down while still hitting objectives it speeds up the game for everyone. Where Hamelin get's really dull is when he's already run away with the game and the rats just keep piling up without anything important to do. So basically he makes dull games duller, I think. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 This is exactly what I did. Same here. Avatar Hamelin is an awesome model. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patzer Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 I find Hamelin isn't that dreary to play against/as in close games. If you can keep the rat numbers down while still hitting objectives it speeds up the game for everyone. Where Hamelin get's really dull is when he's already run away with the game and the rats just keep piling up without anything important to do. So basically he makes dull games duller, I think. Best "playing against Hamelin"-description I have every heard. Spot on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uktena Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 All hail the Long Rat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderwiggin Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 Got my first game in with my new Hamelin crew and I agree with the notes of it being longer/more tedious to keep up with. Also, I may have been entirely unlucky but the Rat kings do not seem to hit around the 8 ss effectiveness. I got much more use out of Sue and my Ronin that game than I did the rat catchers, kings, and (other than activation control) the rats. Best thing that came from the rat kings were the 0 to destroy a scheme marker really, past that whiff city. Nix was another pleasant surprise, he did very well and had most of the opposing crew frustrated, blighted, and engaged at a clutch moment. I only wish he could have had a push effect to have gotten away for a last minute scheme running. Edit: I won 9:8 vs Mei Feng, but I don't think if the game had gone on for even another round that my hailmary play would have held the edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patzer Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 Rat Kings are certainly a low end 8ss model, but they are super easy to summon too. I will rarely hire them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderwiggin Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 Oh I didn't hire any, I just meant that it didn't seem to do much of anything for 8 ss models. I dunno, I halfway liked the swarm of rats simply to outactivate the enemy more than the king feebly slapping for a few points of damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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