Terror tots v. Insidious madness

[Otylia]

What are the pros and cons of each? Specifically running them with Lynch and dreamer. I had been originally planning on holding out for madness because I liked incorporeal on them and liked the idea of the model (loved the recent renders too)... But I wonder if I should give in and just pick up the Lilith box for the tots. *cough*pokemon*cough*

[Patzer]

Both are outstanding in their own right.

 

Tots are dirt cheap, only for 4ss, and are surprisingly sturdy thanks to their df 6. They hit more than ok: ml 5 1/3/4. That damage track is very respectable for a 4ss minion, and the fact that they are ml 5 means they can actually hit a lot of things. Blackblood can make attackers somewhat honest, but is not a life saver. Pounce is always a nice thing to have too. Lynch can speed them up like crazy. The Ace of Masks will let them go 20" in a turn, nearly without any fuzz. Dreamer can use them as nice fillers, although there are no great synergies between them. With that said, Tots are outstanding stand alone models who can fend for themselves. 

 

The same is true for the Insidious Madness. They are very speedy with a walk of 7, with incorporeal. They will go wherever they want, very fast. Incorporeal and df 6 makes them quite sturdy too, but once they get hit, they usually go down. All of their WP debuffs and Horror Duel shenanigans are right up Neverborn's alley, they provide with a ton of synergy in other words. This is especially the case for the Dreamer who can summon them and likes to force plenty of WP duels. A running mate of his is often the notorious Widow Weaver, who thrives while having Insidious madnesses around. Lynch can certainly use them too, while the synergy is not as direct.

[Nical]

I recommend Insidious Madness for Dreamer / Terror tots (or Gupps) for Lynch.  

 

Dreamer - Summoning / Synergy with other Nightmare are better than Terror tots' synergy. 

Lynch - He can use his card tricks for tots. And He usually need cheaper scheme runner because Beckoner and Illuminated are expansive as minions. 

[Otylia]

That's right... I hadn't thought about Gupps, too.

If just one scheme runner had to be selected for either crew (trying not to buy everything), which would you lean towards?  

 

So I guess the real question is - Which is better, the tots synergy w/Lynch or the madness synergy w/Dreamer..... or are the gupps better than both? lol

[The Zinc Lich]

I think that it is a pretty easy answer. If you have a lot of Wp effects, you use Insidious Madness. If you have Nephilim-based effects (Black Blood Pustule and Growth being the big ones), you use Terror Tots. If you have other Swampfiends around, Gupps are the right answer. If you have none of the above going on, like in a Lynch crew, you pick whichever one you like the look of the most. They are all so good at running schemes that analyzing which one is the absolute best is a little bit redundant; each of the three are better at their job than the 4-point options most factions have access to. If you are already the best, does it matter if you are the best best?

[EnternalVoid]

I have tended to Terror Tots alot myself, but that is because a couple in my group were really favoring Ca actions when I was using my Neverborn alot.  Ca attack actions are brutal to the Madness.  It did not help that I kept running into those with Ca7 no less.  that said I have loved the Madness on those tables with buildings that just let me dart through them and lead my enemy on a merry chase but I still often favor Terror Tots.  It might also be that two terror tots are 8ss compared to 10ss for two madness.

 

What really often sells it for me is I like to get scheme runners in twos.  So I like having two even if they are not running together.  Part of it comes down to that I am the sort that actually kills one of my opponent's models on turn 1 fairly often.  Generally who it is depends on what Master and crew I am playing but one of the few stable elements of my strategies is that I like the ability to sink into my opponent from the first turn.  It means I am not fighting 4 rounds, and the first round I generally don't have to worry about any VP being scored.  Now depending on the enemy crew and mine it determines who the target ends up, but often it ends up being some little grunt like a scheme runner.  Because I often kill scheme runners so early, it means I often take that into consideration when building my crew so I build in a back up.  IE two Terror Tots rather than one and so such.

[Adran]

It seems to be the Neverborn question. What do you take to do schemes?

Gupps and Terror tots work very well with Lynchs Ace in the hole. I personally prefere the gupps out of the 2, as I prefere the versitilitly of Leap to the out right speed of Sprint, but there are times sprint is better.

 

Madness is probably much better with Dreamer,he can summon them, which is a very good reason to own them, and he uses more willpower tricks.

 

Currently only Terror tots exist in Plastic. But they do also come in the Lileth Box, and I would generally reomend buying that box rather than the Terror tots box.

Its a very rare time that you want more than 3 terror tots, and crew boxes semm much bettter value to me.

And personally if I were picking one, I would select Gupps. I  really like leap, and they have their grow mechanic built in, (or course this menas you'd need to own Silurids...)

[RatsInTheWalls]

Of the two, I'd say you'll get more general use out Tots, but only slightly.  This is especially true if you're going to get the Lilith box as you said.  She'd be a 3rd master to factor in, and she will usually do better with Tots as well.

That said, if you are more likely to play The Dreamer often, get the madness for all the reasons people have said above.  Basically, The Dreamer wants his own crew, while nearly every other master picks from around the faction.  There is certainly overlap, but I've bought more models (mostly) just for The Dreamer than any other master I have.

 

Edit: basically, get both.

[The Zinc Lich]

The Dreamer wants his own crew, while nearly every other master picks from around the faction.  There is certainly overlap, but I've bought more models (mostly) just for The Dreamer than any other master I have.

 

 

I find that Pandora has a pretty strong crew bias of "things what deal with Wp". Even when she takes stuff specifically to target Df and shore up her focus on targeting Wp, what she wants to take is the Teddy, the tank with Wp interactions.