Jack Daw Project

[apes-ma]

9 hours ago, SlackerLM said:

Driven by Injustice is plused by the target when it fails the duel, not by Jack.

Im wrong, had to read the card. 

It pulses around d jack, and pushes everything all the tormented models towards the target. I only use it to push up the board early in the game, but with Monty being better I'm keen to see if it has any use to get enemy models tied up with Monty (with nurse backup).

[SlackerLM]

To be honest, I only had Jakunna  who could have benefited and she was pulling things to herself. 3" Ml is so good with her.

[MunkyMuddFace]

Strat: Headhunter, corner deploy

Schemes: Claim Jump, Covert Breakthrough, Leave your Mark, Accusation!, Last Stand

My Crew:
Jack Daw with Writhing Torment, Twist and Turn, Curses x 3 – Cache 6
Montressor with Brick by Brick and Fearful Whispers
Strongarm Suit with The Bigger They Are
Johan with Oathkeeper
Nurse
The Guilty
Lady Ligeia
Schemes – Accusation!, Covert Breakthrough

Opponents Crew:
Tara (Ressur) with Emptiness, Knowledge of Eternity – Cache 4
Nothing Beast with Void Shield
Killjoy with Admiration
Carrion Emissary – Tara Conflux
Death Marshal x 2
Schemes: Last Stand, Covert Breakthrough

Turn 1:
Tara wins initiative, and activates Tara activates: triple moves to the middle of the board, and gives herself reactivate.
Guilty: free push 3”, give Strongarm TORMENTED, then Walk him up.
Death Marshall: Buries The Nothing Beast takes a walk action. I see the writing on the wall for what he wants to do – Use DMs to bury Carrion and Nothing Beast, then triple beast bomb on Tara’s Reactivate turn.
Montressor: 3” push, triple walk to get base to base with Tara. Tara was a little too close to a rock, and Montressor was on the opposite side, with his positioning, there is only enough room to unbury two 50mm models.
Death Marshal: Seeing that he will be unable to triple beast bomb, he double walks the other.
Strongarm Suit: 3: push, double walk towards Tara, just short of where I want him (in the way of blocking a 50mm base).
Carrion Emissary: Double walks up and puts up a wall.
Jack Daw: double walk, hits Tara with Suppressed Memories, buying the teleport to place on the back edge of Tara. Now, there is only enough room to unbury one 50mm model. Used his Twist and Turn on the Strongarm Suit to block him out, but the Black Jokers the cast!
Tara: Reactivates and Unburies The Nothing Beast. Tara takes some swings at Montressor, pitching cards for each attack. She does some damage.
Johan: Double walks toward the scrum.
Nothing Beast: Fast from unburying in the Carrion’s aura. Takes a bunch of swings at Montressor, I burn some stones, Monty has taken 3 wounds.
Ligea and the Nurse move up.
End of Turn: He summons a Mindless Zombie, declares Last Stand.
Score 0 - 0

 Turn 2:
Tara: Hits Montressor with Eventuality for free, Montressor gains the Nowhere condition. Gives herself Reactivate. Hits Montressor with Pull the Void for Slow and took some other swings.
Jack Daw: Hits the Nothing Beast with a couple Nooses and giving it the Firing Squad Injustice. Bangs on him, and gets Nothing Beast down to 1 wound. Twist and Turn to nudge Montressor so he is in base contact with Tara and Nothing Beast.
Nothing Beast: 2 AP penance to flip Firing Squad Injustice. Takes a swing on Strongarm, misses.
Motressor: Slow. String Em’ Up on Tara, throwing a 13Crow to get the Paralyze trigger. He hits for weak, but Tara stones and prevents the damage, does not gain Paralyze.
Death Marshal: Charges Montressor, hitting with a Pine Box, Montressor is buried, takes 2 damage from Nowhere condition.
Strongarm Suit: Charges Up for +1 Ml damage, Charges Carrion Emissary. I am low on cards, so only land one of the attacks for weak of 4 (base 2, Charge up +1, The Bigger they are +1).
Carrion Emissary: counter attacks, landing a couple hits on the strongarm.
Lady Ligeia: double walks into the void that Montressor left, catching Tara and the Death Marshal in her can’t cheat aura.
Death Marshal: Double moves.
Nurse: Walks within 8” of Tara. Pitches a 2Mask for prescription and hits, because Tara can’t cheat. Tara gains Uppers.
Mindless Zombie moves to engage the Strongarm.
The Guilty double moves to towards Tara’s deployment zone.
Tara: Reactivate, all she can do is walk or Interact from Uppers. Tries to take a walk. I thought she was boxed in with nowhere to go, but incorporeal Nothing Beast would allow her a path. Jack hits on the disengaging strike. She tries to walk again, beats out Jack and Ligeia, walks 7. Unable to use the Tactical Action due to Uppers, she drops a scheme marker.
Johan: Double walks towards the scrum.
End of Turn: Nothing died, so no heads to pick up for strat. Killjoy is still buried, so no points awarded to Last Stand.

Turn 3:
Tara wins Initiative. Gives herself reactivate, Walks back towards the Fight. Unburies Killjoy. (I don’t remember what she did with the last AP), chain activation into Killjoy.
Killjoy: Charges Johan. Johan dodges the first attack, gets hit by the second. Onslaught, trigger, Johan is kit again. Last AP kill Johan, the first head is dropped.
Jack Daw: Hits Nothing Beast with a Noose, killing it. Hits Killjoy to give him Firing Squad Injustice. Twist and Turn the Nurse towards one of the head markers.
Death Marshal (the one that has Montressor boxed): Montressor wins and is unboxed! Only to be reboxed. Ho hum.
Nurse: Pushes into range to picks up a head and accomplice the Strongarm. Tries to hit Killjoy with a prescription, but fails the Terrifying check. Accomplice to Strongarm.
Strongarm Suit: Charges up for +1 Melee damage. Charges Killjoy (this was a mistake!) Hits killjoy with the positive twist trigger, deals sever for 9. Smacks Killjoy again for moderate 7 for the kill and head.
Carrion Emmisary: Two attacks on the Nurse, both land killing her and dropping a head.
The Guilty: Double walks toward the opponents deployment zone (with the scrum in the middle and terrain, he did not have a straight shot)
Death Marshal: Walks and picks up a head.
Lady Ligeia: Wiggles and attacks something.
Mindless Zombie: Wanders after the strongarm with its 1AP
Tara: Walks, drops a scheme marker, walks again.
End of Turn: Score 1 – 1, Last Stand is a dead scheme since Tara does not have the models to score for it.

Turn 4:
Tara wins Initiative. Gives herself Reactivate, Walks, drops a third scheme marker for Covert Breakthrough, then walks back towards the battle.
Jack Daw: Hits the Death Marshal that has Monty buried, giving it Guillotine Injustice. It is now that I remember that I have Accusation as a scheme, and realize Jack is the only model that is viable to hand it out (Monty is buried, Strongarm is engaged with Tara who has already, activated, the Guilty is far away from the action, Ligeia is a peon). Twist and Turn to nudge the Death Marshal towards Jack. Jack still has to walk, then interacts to Accuse.
Carrion Emissary: Charges Strong arm. It lands just inside Ligeia’s no cheat aura, causing it the miss the strong arm. Creates a wall.
Strongarm Suit: Swings on the Emissary, landing one hit.
Death Marshal: Tried to box Ligeia, but the anti-cheat aura kept her on the board.
The Guilty: Walked and Dropped a scheme marker.
The Accused Death Marshal: He had an opportunity for points denial if he just let the Marshal die to Guillotine Injustice. But he wanted to keep Montressor boxed, so pitched the cards to keep him alive. Wins the willpower duel to keep Monty boxed. Tries to walk to a head, Jack wins the disengage strikes.
Lady Ligeia: Wiggles and attacks, hits nothing.
Mindless Zombie: Swing and a miss on the strongarm.
Tara: Charges the Strongarm, and takes a third swing.
End of Turn: No points awarded for Strat, I forget to shed Accused for a VP! L Another Mindless Zombie pops out.
Score: 1 -1

Turn 5:
Tara Wins Initiative. Again. Pull the Void to give Carrion Emissary Fast and Strong Arm slow. Swings on the Strongarm, bringing him down to 1 wound remaining.
Jack Daw: Hits the Carrion with Suppressed Memories, giving it Firing Squad Injustice. Twist and Turn the Carrion away from the Strongarm. Noose attacks on the Carrion Emissary.
Death Marshal: Finally successfully boxes Lady Ligeia.
Strongarm Suit: Slow. Charges up and punches Tara.
Accused Death Marshal: Pitches cards to keep Montressor buried, wins the Wp duel to keep him buried. Tries to walk to pick up a head. Jack prevents with Disengaging Strikes.
The Guilty: Walks and drops another scheme marker.
Carrion Emissary: Fast. Swings at Jack. Lands one hit out of three attempts.
Mindless Zombies: One attacks the Strongarm, the other walks towards the Strongarm.
Tara: Swings on the Strongarm, killing it. Walks. Interact to collect a Head.
End of Turn: Tara flips to see if it continues to another round, flips an 11. Reflips an 8, the game is over. Scoring: 1 VP to Tara for Strat, 3 VP for Covert Breakthrough. 1 VP to Jack Daw for Accusation, 2 VP for Covert Breakthrough.

Final score: Jack Daw 4 – Tara 5

In writing this and reflecting back on the game, I realized I made a few tactical mistakes:
In Turn 3, I chose to charge Killjoy. I had the hand to do it, and, honestly, I was seduced by the prospect of minimum 5 damage. But in that Turn, Killjoy had already activated, and was not an immediate threat. I should have continued to attack the Emissary to remove it from the board.
In Turn 5, I should have started with my slow Strongarm to give the Emissary Accusation. This would have been much more important if I had remembered to score off of it Turn 4. But still, I should have had some redundancy in case my opponent chose to let the Death Marshal die to Guillotine. In the end, this is a bit of a moot point.

One last note: I forgot my physical stat cards at home, so had to borrow cards from a friend. Unfortunately, he did not have Big Jake in his book. I would have made room for him, the Don’t Mind Me would have been useful in this game.

Overall, a very fun game. Looking forward to rolling Jack Daw in a tourney this weekend!

[FunWithKnives]

Guys, could you please share some ideas about competitive JD crews? Are there options other than "outcast good stuff" + guilty? 

I'm planning to bring him for Extraction and GtS games

[I'm a Teapot!]

3 hours ago, FunWithKnives said:

Guys, could you please share some ideas about competitive JD crews? Are there options other than "outcast good stuff" + guilty? 

I'm planning to bring him for Extraction and GtS games

Papa loco, a void wretch and Hans with Scout the Field. 

Play your Turn, burry Papa, activate Hans, discard Scout, kill your enemy's Terracotta, Low River, Field Reporter, or Terror Tot, Totem, little 5 Wound Support Model, whatever and watch your opponents Face when Papa Loco appears in the middle of his crew and is still not activated.

Plan B:

Do the Same with the Nothing Beast, but give him Hold this at the beginning of the combo. 

2/5/7 with + to dmg is fun.

[SlackerLM]

@I'm a Teapot!

Papabox Hold This doesn't work any more. Errata'ed out.

[apes-ma]

1 hour ago, SlackerLM said:

@I'm a Teapot!

Papabox Hold This doesn't work any more. Errata'ed out.

You're not using Hold This, just using a void wretch to bury him, then Hans as a long range papa loco delivery mechanism. Then if you give it to the NB then bury it but keep papa out the ground it works fine I believe.

[SlackerLM]

When he mentioned his plan b. 

[FunWithKnives]

6 hours ago, I'm a Teapot! said:

Papa loco, a void wretch and Hans with Scout the Field. 

Play your Turn, burry Papa, activate Hans, discard Scout, kill your enemy's Terracotta, Low River, Field Reporter, or Terror Tot, Totem, little 5 Wound Support Model, whatever and watch your opponents Face when Papa Loco appears in the middle of his crew and is still not activated.

Plan B:

Do the Same with the Nothing Beast, but give him Hold this at the beginning of the combo. 

2/5/7 with + to dmg is fun.

Sounds a bit gimmicky, does it really work? Btw kinda tired playing bomb crews

[I'm a Teapot!]

1 hour ago, SlackerLM said:

When he mentioned his plan b. 

the condition gets removed when this model (papa) leaves play, not the target he gave it to.

[I'm a Teapot!]

1 hour ago, FunWithKnives said:

Sounds a bit gimmicky, does it really work? Btw kinda tired playing bomb crews

I think playing Jack and utilizing his pushes to the max with a hit and run shooty crew might be a thing then. 

[apes-ma]

12 hours ago, I'm a Teapot! said:

I think playing Jack and utilizing his pushes to the max with a hit and run shooty crew might be a thing then. 

I've tried that before and it's fun, the problem with the current meta, though, is to do that you're taking a tax guilty, and 4SS of upgrades on jack, and hitting the sweet spot for activations whilst having enough stones to support jack (Df4 with so many flips in the game now is a nightmare) is pretty rough.

[I'm a Teapot!]

9 hours ago, apes-ma said:

I've tried that before and it's fun, the problem with the current meta, though, is to do that you're taking a tax guilty, and 4SS of upgrades on jack, and hitting the sweet spot for activations whilst having enough stones to support jack (Df4 with so many flips in the game now is a nightmare) is pretty rough.

I'd take dead Outlaws and one key Ranged piece in order to keep the efficiency. I recently discovered that playing montresor as a shooter with Papa locos +dmg buff is pretty strong and you can keep papa for a bomb when the right time comes. Hans doesnt need the pushes and the rest of the crew is tormented or can be made with guillotine justice. 

The problem is that everyone has +flips nowdays, which is why jack has to be kept back to be support only or protected by marlena webster. 

[Saduhem]

With the guilty at 4 stones, isn't it worth it to bring two or even three simply for the non-randomization on shooting? Having a couple effective min dmg 3 dead outlaws and or Lazarus/Monty/Alyce shooting into cheap tarpits doesn't sound that bad. 

I hate for their movement 0 action to have such a high TN (Needing a 7 or higher if I recall correctly), but if it goes off those are some fast tar pits too, especially with 2 pushes a turn from Jack.

Maybe hang in the back, activate early, put curses everywhere with Ca7, help your guilty gum up the crews and shoot everything to ribbons? Maybe focusing on melee monster Jack is a bit of a trap in a faction with the Vicks, Misaki, Nythera Schill, and Levi? He can give out a ton of free AP more reliably than Tara. Although that requires a guilty heavy crew or a few guilty. I'm just not so sure that's a tax any longer. 

[apes-ma]

On 23/01/2018 at 3:34 PM, Saduhem said:

With the guilty at 4 stones, isn't it worth it to bring two or even three simply for the non-randomization on shooting? Having a couple effective min dmg 3 dead outlaws and or Lazarus/Monty/Alyce shooting into cheap tarpits doesn't sound that bad. 

I hate for their movement 0 action to have such a high TN (Needing a 7 or higher if I recall correctly), but if it goes off those are some fast tar pits too, especially with 2 pushes a turn from Jack.

Maybe hang in the back, activate early, put curses everywhere with Ca7, help your guilty gum up the crews and shoot everything to ribbons? Maybe focusing on melee monster Jack is a bit of a trap in a faction with the Vicks, Misaki, Nythera Schill, and Levi? He can give out a ton of free AP more reliably than Tara. Although that requires a guilty heavy crew or a few guilty. I'm just not so sure that's a tax any longer. 

The sad thing is that it feels so bad taking Nurses now, and they were one of the main (or the only?!) draws to out of faction tormented hires. They just don't seem good at 6 to me... I am keen to try a more shooty list with Guilty though - dead outlaws and then lazarus or rusty alyce or something like that - seems like it could be pretty cool.

[Nukemouse]

Whenever i took a nurse, i also took a freikorps specialist to remove the paralyze with. For me that combo is the same price.

[Mxbedlam]

So tell me what you would do with Jack to make him compete with our other beater masters in gg18? What pools are you bringing him into and why over say Viks, Hamelin or Tara? I'm looking into getting him but my hesitation is that I already have 2 masters that I probably won't play in tournaments with Outcasts. Not sure I want another. 

[Saduhem]

6 hours ago, Mrbedlam said:

So tell me what you would do with Jack to make him compete with our other beater masters in gg18? What pools are you bringing him into and why over say Viks, Hamelin or Tara? I'm looking into getting him but my hesitation is that I already have 2 masters that I probably won't play in tournaments with Outcasts. Not sure I want another. 

I don't think Jack is the best in faction option for anything right now unfortunately. Besides being very cool and thematic. He has too many TNs (This is what bothers me the most) if you want to play support and not a lot of card draw to make up for it, and he's too squishy as a dedicated beater.

[PositronMike]

On 1/29/2018 at 10:55 PM, Saduhem said:

I don't think Jack is the best in faction option for anything right now unfortunately. Besides being very cool and thematic. He has too many TNs (This is what bothers me the most) if you want to play support and not a lot of card draw to make up for it, and he's too squishy as a dedicated beater.

I don't agree that he is too squishy, I don't think I ever lost Jack in a game when I was playing him as a beater. The issue now is due to how damage bonuses due to triggers works he does not hit as hard so can't fulfill the beater roll as well. I would say Jack is one of our best control masters and has the most movement tricks of any outcast master. I tend to use Jack as a crew support piece a lot more now and use his ranged attack to drop curses on models to disrupt them. I still like to take all 3 curses and Writhing Torment on Jack so then it comes down to the crew I am using as to which is the other upgrade I take. 

[McSkip]

@PositronMike and how do your latest lists look like with GG2018?

[PositronMike]

44 minutes ago, McSkip said:

@PositronMike and how do your latest lists look like with GG2018?

Not played a huge amount of GG18 with Jack however my core Jack build hasn't changed massively. I always take all 3 curses and writhing torment on Jack. The Emissary, Sue and one Guilty also always make the list and a second Guilty quite often gets included. I like to go quite minion and enforcer heavy with Jack so Dead Outlaws and the Cross Roads 7 models are always in consideration. I think Jack can do all of the strats quite well mainly due to the extra movement he gives the crew and the opportunities for extra damage from curses.

As I tend to build very much to strats and schemes it is easier for me to give a list for a specific situation but in general I tend to go for 8 model crews with Monty as the only henchman if I take one, I find I use most of my stones for cards and damage prevention on Jack so I don't really have any spare for henchmen to use so I like enforcers instead.

[daniello_s]

I think Jack should be solid in GG18. With free push on the Tormented models and himself being killy master he should find his place in current meta.

[Cedar]

53 minutes ago, daniello_s said:

I think Jack should be solid in GG18. With free push on the Tormented models and himself being killy master he should find his place in current meta.

Unfortunately, he doesn't do as much damage as Viktorias, Misaki ot Hamelin, and his push isn't as effective as Obey or even push from Parker.

[Adran]

1 hour ago, Cedar said:

Unfortunately, he doesn't do as much damage as Viktorias, Misaki ot Hamelin, and his push isn't as effective as Obey or even push from Parker.

He can easily do 14 damage in 3 AP, so its not that far from a tooled up Vik, and that doesn't need any set up from him. (The bigger they are and using the first attack to put Guillotine injustice, and the last attack to remove an injustice). Its more single target focused, but it seems the current play style is less swarmy than before. 

[Cedar]

I played few games with him recently and sadly he was more an annoyance for my opponent than a real threat. In theory he can deal large amount of damage, but he is less mobile than viks or levi and doesn't have good range like hamelin or mentined levi.