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The Dual Faction Cycles of Malifaux - The Trinities


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This article is about the dual faction master trinities (thx Prae^^) and their advantages for having a cheaper start into the game.
At first, Malifaux isn`t quiet expensive compared to other tabletop games, but for small money pockets it`s a good idea to make some guesses on the options for a further development of your model collection.
What beside the money is also of interest?

Well, being flexible to react on the strat and scheme pool, less predictable for your opponent, versatile to fight the menance he offers to you and having a lot of fun.
How to manage all this things at the same time?

Therefore, the Wyrd team has had several ideas: Mercenaries (mainly outcasts, but also others like the Performer and several new ones in the wave 3 batch), masters with fellows of one or more other factions (e.g Leveticus, Marcus) and dual faction units like Mei Feng and the Guild Pathfinder with his Clockwork Traps. This leads into a net wich connects the different factions with each other and form mutiple cycles of masters, wich have access to quiet simliar model pools. The cheapest variation are the trinities, three masters covering three factions, each with two masters. First thing about them is to say is, that they wouldn`t work without Ten Thunder: Currently it`s not possible to form a trinity in absence of a 10T master.

 

So far there are four trinities exisiting:
Misaki, Tara, Yan Lo;
Yan Lo, Dr. McMourning, Lucas McCabe;
Lucas McCabe, Lucius, Jacob Lynch;
Jacob Lynch, Zoraida, The Brewmaster.

As everyone can see, the cycle can be extended from Misaki to The Brewmaster without the other 10T masters, but i will stick to the trinities because of th€ co$t$.

 

My favored Trinity is McCabe, Lucius and Lynch. Why?

Because they have a really effective way for sharing models. With the 'Suprisingly Loyal' upgrade Lucius can trust in up to four Mimics or Guardsmen, regardless of the announced faction. Lucas McCabe could hire models with the Guardsmen or the Black Sheep characteristic on his stat card and Jacob Lynch has access to models with the Darkened characteristic.

 

And here are some of this useful Models:

 

Beckoners: Not for McCabe, but for Lucius and Lynch in NvB/Guild and NvB/10T.
Mr. Graves and Mr. Tannen: For McCabe 10T only, but for Lucius and Lynch in both of their factions.
Guild Pathfinder: For Lynch 10T only, but full access for Lucius and McCabe. Note: Lucius can`t hire Clockwork Traps in NvB, but the Pathfinder can summon them.
Lawyers: To Lucius in NvB and Guild, McCabe Guild only and no access for Lynch.

So there`re easily arround 30ss they can share, and the rest could be filled with their crew box contents. In 10T Lynch and McCabe could share everything of their boxes, except for each others totem, the same is true for McCabe and Lucius in Guild, but while Lucius could hire Lynch box models as well,  Lynch can`t hire Lucius` box models.

So that are my suggestions on this trinty. For the others, i have not enough experiences how good their models fit in each others plans. So if you could, don`t hide your ideas and post them below.

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I really don't get why you would go for dual faction Masters if money is a concern, as opposed to getting three Masters from the same faction. Each Master can only use at most 2/3 of your models that way, if you go for the same faction all your Masters can use all models (except Totems and Masters).

 

The same goes for versatility, since you have to declare faction before knowing the scheme and strategy you will have already cut away part of your models before knowing.

 

Sure, going for dual faction trinities will be cheaper than just buying random Master with no regard for factions, but it will be significantly more expensive than sticking to a faction.

 

Finally, there are four trinities to chose from, there are vastly more combinations of three same factions Masters to chose from, 7 * C(7,3) = 245.

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It's a good idea if you want to demo to build up a meta, as you might want two factions for that. But otherwise, I agree with Bengt.

 

I still think that Von Schill and Viktorias are the best starter boxes for competitive players, as they can still use most of the models if they later change the Faction due to playstyle preferences.

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Nice list, but wouldn't it be better for variety to buy three in the same faction? The biggest difference between playing a certain master in each of the dual factions is imho the access to different models. Buying three different same-faction masters would grant you the same variety in model selection, but a larger pool for each individual game. Given that factions are announced first, this would also presumably get you more competitive. I agree though that the list is useful, as after theee masters in the same faction you're into diminishing returns, and if the third is dual faction you'd have a cheap entry to another faction...

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I agree with the others concerning people starting the game, however I think Dirial hit this right on the head. If you're trying to get Malifaux started in your area, this is perfect for running a variety of beginner games or lending to people to try out for themselves.

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When i look in the signatures of the players, usually more than one faction is listed. So as said, for further developement its better to start with a multifactional model core, sooner or later almost everyone wants to enter addtional faction(s). That`s why i opened this topic.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I'm going to suggest another trinity, one that isn't all dual-faction, but sounds promising: Mei Feng, Hoffman, and McCabe. Mei Feng likes to pick up Metal Gaimin and the Rail Golem, either for use with Infiltration as TT or natively in Arcanists. Hoffman has an upgrade that lets him hire in MS&U models, including the Gaimin and Golem. He also appreciates the odd non-construct, including Guardsmen which McCabe can value, especially the Pathfinder which is dual faction TT and which Mei Feng appreciates.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I'd also make a blanket suggest that if you are worried about cost - you should avoid miniature games altogether. Vidyas would be a much cheaper and "less time consuming" hobby (most of the time ;) ).

The problem is - if you start limiting your choices or creativity due to monetary constraints you limit your potential and with miniatures the sky should be the limit - don't build any ceilings and if cost is truly a concern I'd find a different hobby. This shit can become an addicting obsession even when you come into it with the most moderate of intentions. The last thing you want to do is spend money on something that you don't end up realizing to its full potential.

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It's perfectly possible to take part in the miniature game hobby on a modest budget, and Malifaux is one of the cheaper options in that regard. Everyone has constraints on their spending - unless you're part of the 1%, "the sky's the limit" is unlikely to apply to any aspect of your life, especially your leisure activities.

 

When attracting new players, having an initial buy-in that's affordable is a big plus. I've seen people who were very keen to get into the hobby balk at the $800+ entry point for a functional 40K army - dropping $150 on Malifaux is much easier to stomach for most people.

 

Threads like this are a great way for new players with limited cash to review their options when getting into the hobby. Don't discourage them! Honestly, buying two or three crew boxes and a few extra models can provide more than enough options to be fully competitive in this game - anything above that is just additional variety, and can come at whatever pace the player desires (and can afford).

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Yeah i also play ice and roller hockey. £2-300 on skates, sticks that last 6 months cost £150 each £10 per session on ice £15 per game. Most other equipment lasts a while but the cost is still high as you do replace it. Can't get a game in my hometown as no other teams that play in our rink will play us so have to travel 160miles to play a game.

So yeah skirmish wargames arent too much of a burden.

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Kadeton - I agree with about 1% of your post. The part where you said its unrealistic to assume unlimited creative potential due to all the constraints people put on themselves. The rest is convenient misinformation. Saying "Oh hey, don't worry - this game only costs 150$ to get into" is bullshit. How many hobbyists do you know who just buy one or two things and stay put? Ohhhhhh... but its their decision - they can stop at any time, right? Please.

This industry is built on exploiting human nature and manipulating the psychology of compulsive people. That's why vidyas have DLC, boredgames have expansions, and we all live in an "upgrade culture."

I am a 0% or 100% kind of person - I don't believe in moderation - its the yoda "do or do not" thing. If you're like me then this hobby is a great time sink to keep you out of trouble. I am not constrained by money and I can push myself as far as I want to.

However, not too many people can do that - makes sense. However, however... especially if I know the type of person... I am more than likely going to say "don't bother - its too expensive" or maybe "it probably won't be worth it for you - its a very dedicated and time consuming hobby." Saying "don't discourage" is the same as saying "manipulate the f*ck out of your friends so they buy lots of stuff."

That's a strategy for pushing drugs - I'm not selling a hobby (read: lifestyle) to someone that way (unless I made money off of them, myself, I suppose ;) ). I know too many people who bought way more than they needed or didn't possess the finances to truly realize the hobby to a standard they are happy with. They get pissed off, feel that they wasted money, and then call the whole thing quits and wish they never did it in the first place.

I remember once upon a time, a good friend of mine showed interest but instead of selling him on it I told him all the bad stuff to dissuade him. Cut fingers, time consumption, small parts, lack of people to play with, etc etc - pretty much a list of about 20+ things. In the end I told him "it sounds funny, but I'm pretty sure you need a psychological disorder or two just to do this hobby."

I'm not sure if I really believe that (probably) but its an interesting way to think about it, no less. I will only try selling the hobby to people I know will stick with it and "go hard" otherwise my opinion is a rock solid "don't bother." I'd feel like a bigger jerk for getting someone into the hobby who isn't going to enjoy it than I would missing out on adding another head to the community. After all, if they really wanted to be apart of it "for reals" they would have pushed themselves into the hobby and made their own connections and did their own research... the way I did it...

Flame on.

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It is true that hunting down models can become quite an obsession. I just found a Sue, and it cost a fair chunk of change to make mine.

That said, with the addition of Guilty as Charged, I'll have representations of all the Outcast models, plus a few out of faction models that can be played with Outcast masters. Then it's just a matter of painting and playing them.

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Kadeton - I agree with about 1% of your post. The part where you said its unrealistic to assume unlimited creative potential due to all the constraints people put on themselves. The rest is convenient misinformation. Saying "Oh hey, don't worry - this game only costs 150$ to get into" is bullshit. How many hobbyists do you know who just buy one or two things and stay put? Ohhhhhh... but its their decision - they can stop at any time, right? Please.

Can't they? I've gotten into heaps of games with an initial buy-in, played them for a while without buying more, and moved on. I dropped the hobby entirely for a decade because I lost and regained interest in it. I think most people are capable of independent thought and decision-making, and I don't find these games psychologically addictive.

I'm not sure which of us is projecting more. :P

This industry is built on exploiting human nature and manipulating the psychology of compulsive people. That's why vidyas have DLC, boredgames have expansions, and we all live in an "upgrade culture."

Every aspect of consumer culture is based on that premise, yes. That includes every other hobby or leisure activity - clever marketers can commodify anything.

I am a 0% or 100% kind of person - I don't believe in moderation - its the yoda "do or do not" thing. If you're like me then this hobby is a great time sink to keep you out of trouble. I am not constrained by money and I can push myself as far as I want to.

However, not too many people can do that - makes sense. However, however... especially if I know the type of person... I am more than likely going to say "don't bother - its too expensive" or maybe "it probably won't be worth it for you - its a very dedicated and time consuming hobby." Saying "don't discourage" is the same as saying "manipulate the f*ck out of your friends so they buy lots of stuff."

I can't agree with you there. In this case, "Don't discourage" was saying "Don't tell people that the game isn't worth playing if you can't afford to buy every model you want immediately, because that's simply not true." If someone's looking for a miniatures game to play, they're probably going to buy something, and I'd rather they picked up Malifaux because I'd like there to be more people to play against and discuss the game with.

That's a strategy for pushing drugs - I'm not selling a hobby (read: lifestyle) to someone that way (unless I made money off of them, myself, I suppose ;) ). I know too many people who bought way more than they needed or didn't possess the finances to truly realize the hobby to a standard they are happy with. They get pissed off, feel that they wasted money, and then call the whole thing quits and wish they never did it in the first place.

That's a shame. I don't think a hobby is a lifestyle, personally - it's part of one, certainly, but there should be other things in your life. I still wouldn't discourage people from the hobby I enjoy simply because they might not be satisfied by it. That's their decision to make, not yours.

I remember once upon a time, a good friend of mine showed interest but instead of selling him on it I told him all the bad stuff to dissuade him. Cut fingers, time consumption, small parts, lack of people to play with, etc etc - pretty much a list of about 20+ things. In the end I told him "it sounds funny, but I'm pretty sure you need a psychological disorder or two just to do this hobby."

Yikes. The problem with discouraging people who lack mental disorders from participating in your hobby is that very quickly it becomes a hobby exclusively for people who match your idea of the "correct" personality type - it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Also, how do you expect to reduce problems like "lack of people to play with" if you keep pushing people away?

I'm not sure if I really believe that (probably) but its an interesting way to think about it, no less. I will only try selling the hobby to people I know will stick with it and "go hard" otherwise my opinion is a rock solid "don't bother." I'd feel like a bigger jerk for getting someone into the hobby who isn't going to enjoy it than I would missing out on adding another head to the community. After all, if they really wanted to be apart of it "for reals" they would have pushed themselves into the hobby and made their own connections and did their own research... the way I did it...

Yeah, that's basically what I mean - people can enjoy this game in ways other than "going hard", and if that works for them, good. If it doesn't, at least they tried it, and hopefully they will at least come away thinking that the people who do play the game aren't a huge pile of jerks.

Why would people "push themselves into the hobby" when there are people already there - you, apparently - pushing them out before they get a foot in the door? Make the hobby welcoming, and let people find the game that suits them.

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"Hobby is a lifestyle" - well, no. A hobby is something you make for yourself, regardless of what others think about it and maybe you won`t tell everyone wich hobbies you have. A lifestyle is your outer representation wich you show to everyone. But in both cases it`s a question of yourself, how deep you enter in it.

 

In the hobby case, e.g. model railway it`s on you, if you wanna have just a track on the floor with analog train control to play on christmas or a nice terrain with a few houses and trees you modify from time to time or if you wanna be always there with the latest digital fashion up to train-in-station announcements.

 

In general: It makes a big different if one have to spend 100 or 500 €/$ just for entering the game. Thats what has kept me away from  WH(FB/40k) and dragged me into Malifaux.

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Kadeton - I'm probably projecting a little more than you are, but not much. I just don't see how reasonable people who don't take it seriously get into this jobby in the first place, I guess. ;)

Just a couple points to clarify - When I tell someone about any hobby or interest or anything really - I want to give them the full picture - the good with the bad. If I tell them all the bad stuff and they still want to start the hobby then its probably worth it for them. If I can easily dissuade someone though - I probably saved them a lot of time and effort.

I personally don't think this hobby is worth it unless you really go hard - there are so many other similar options that don't require so much time and effort ... once again though, I tell them that and if they're still interested then good on them. The "lifestyle" bit is in reference to everything - the hobby itself, attending your FLGS, going to conventions, socializing at pubs, spendig tons of time on your models, facebook groups, message boards - its extensive and you can't tell me that doesn't influence your lifestyle. If you look on your facebook and its full of your gamer buddies and people you met at conventions - then it has invaded your lifestyle. I do a lot more then "just minis" but I would be silly to say that miniwargaming doesn't take up a lot of my time (and I enjoy it so much - I'm fine with it... or at the very least it keeps me busy :D ).

Basically, my last post boils down to: "I don't push things on people and I give them the whole picture." If they have a real drive to get into the hobby then nothing I say will dissuade them anyway.

Keep in mind - I'm a hobby first, gaming second type person. Gaming is just something bonus to do once you have a bunch of little guys and nothing to do with them. If I was a game first type person - I would definently limit myself to boerdgames and vidyas... you'd have to explain to me why you would get into miniwargaming instead of just playing starcraft, axis and allies, or similar if you were a casual gamer.

It doesn't make sense to me to even bother unless you are a hobbyist - you'll have to enlighten me. Whenever people show interest, to me - its the minis and the hobby that grabs them - rarely their interest in the actual game. If I wanted to just game - I'd take the easier, more casual options available in this day and age.

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I'll speak up as someone who enjoys the hobby, but doesn't "go hard" with it.  This is because the game is my favorite part, assembly at a distant second, and painting as a nonexistent third.  I also have a rather tight budget, so due to my earlier preferences I will proxy as much as possible until I can either afford the actual model (if I like it).  It's a hobby that I won't spend all of my money on, but it's one that will see my dollars when I can afford it as long as it continues to hold my gaming interest (unlike Warhammer 40k).

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Keep in mind - I'm a hobby first, gaming second type person. Gaming is just something bonus to do once you have a bunch of little guys and nothing to do with them. If I was a game first type person - I would definently limit myself to boerdgames and vidyas... you'd have to explain to me why you would get into miniwargaming instead of just playing starcraft, axis and allies, or similar if you were a casual gamer.

It doesn't make sense to me to even bother unless you are a hobbyist - you'll have to enlighten me. Whenever people show interest, to me - its the minis and the hobby that grabs them - rarely their interest in the actual game. If I wanted to just game - I'd take the easier, more casual options available in this day and age.

 

Sure, I'll give it a go. Bear in mind that getting into the hobby is a completely personal thing, and everyone will be looking for something slightly different. Here's what I look for:

 

My main draw is the game itself, the experience of competing with another person to analyse a complex situation and manipulate it to your advantage. I enjoy the cerebral challenge of complex puzzles. So what makes Malifaux (and similar mini wargames) better than board and video games? For me, there are three main factors.

 

First, Malifaux is more complex. There are simply more elements to the problem, more emergent complexity, than exist in the highly-abstracted systems of most board games. That's not to say that those games are easier or inferior experiences - they just tend to be less "messy", more rigidly structured, and I personally find Malifaux to be pitched exactly at the level of abstraction I most enjoy. It's similar with computer games, although in most cases I would say they actually are inferior experiences - the problem you're presented with is usually simplistic, and the challenge of solving a complex problem is replaced with reaction-based "twitch" gaming, which doesn't appeal to me at all.

 

Second, and related to the first, is the narrative element. A game of Malifaux is like collaborative storytelling - dramatic, often hilarious, occasionally tragic. Many board games are abstracted to a level that resists narrativisation and depersonalises the conflict, and while I still engage with them on a cerebral level, I miss the joy that a compelling narrative brings to the experience. It's a narrative that you get to shape by your own decisions, but which can still surprise you because of your opponent's influence - that combination is tremendously satisfying for me.

 

Third, Malifaux has a very personal, social element. I bond with my opponents over the game, getting to know them, to understand how they feel and think, to see what drives them and what scares them. The personal immediacy of sitting across the table from a person and being able to see their reactions and read the nuances of their body language is something that video games can never provide. Board games can, but in general when I play board games it's part of a group rather than a one-on-one interaction, and because I'm less engaged (for the reasons above) it's not as intense.

 

While I enjoy the painting a modelling side of the hobby to some extent, it's mainly something I have to do in order to get to the good bit, as it were. I enjoy plenty of board games and a few video games as well, but there's nothing that comes close to being as enjoyable as a good wargame.

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Well, I can appreciate all three of those points. I never really thought of it that way. After all, a videogame is all codes and design you don't have to worry about whereas a wargame is having the entire game in your head x2 (because you have to consider your opponent's strategy as well).

I think what is really happening here is a conservative jobbyist is butting heads with a more free thinking gamer and we are just pretending to talk about this subject which may or may not have gone off topic. ;)

I couldn't imagine getting into wargaming for the game aspect alone but I guess people do. I think you people are silly!... but I understand. ;)

All I really want to do is smash face with my pretty little guys. I suppose the benefit of my mindset is that I win the game the moment I'm playing against an opponent who faces off against me with a premium army. I take a bunch if pics and couldn't be happier - you silly gamers actually have to play the game. ;)

Now, then - try to explain to me the mindset behind playing this game with unpainted minis attached to a bases via sticky tac, if you'd be so kind. ;)

Regardless, despite being more appreciative to the gamer-mentality of the hobby I still feel compelled to be very transparent about all aspects of the hobby to a prospective player... bad stuff included. ;)

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Now, then - try to explain to me the mindset behind playing this game with unpainted minis attached to a bases via sticky tac, if you'd be so kind. ;)

Heh, that one's easy: impatience. Painting and basing models takes time, and sometimes they're not ready when game night rolls around. I'm a slow painter, and frequently busy - if I only have one evening free in a week, I'd rather spend it playing a game than painting models. I've taken to getting up early and painting before work just to get some of my huge backlog of unpainted models done.

Playing with painted models is unquestionably better than playing with unpainted models, but playing with unpainted models is also better than not playing at all. ;)

Regardless, despite being more appreciative to the gamer-mentality of the hobby I still feel compelled to be very transparent about all aspects of the hobby to a prospective player... bad stuff included. ;)

Sure, just keep in mind that the things that seem "good" or "bad" to you might be the opposite, or totally inconsequential, to someone else. I'd rather help someone find the things they enjoy about the hobby than scare them off by laying everything on the table at once.

It's a bit like going swimming - there are good aspects (it's fun and good exercise) and bad aspects (being cold and wet initially sucks). Some people prefer to dive in head-first, some to dip a toe in and adjust slowly. Some people like swimming laps for hours, others want to splash around with their friends. Everyone's doing the same thing, but everyone's enjoying it in different ways, at their own pace.

Crucially, though, if one of the head-first people jumps in and goes "AARGH it's FREEZING," then I (a toe-first, splash-around swimmer) am way more likely to go "Nope, I'll stay out of the water, thanks," and if I do dip my toes in I'm likely to think "Yep, that's freezing, screw this malarkey." This still applies even if they later seem to be enjoying themselves. If they instead say "Come on, it's a bit cold but once you're in it's fine!" then I'll at least give it a try, and will be more open-minded about the idea that the cold might eventually become bearable. The water in both examples can be the exact same temperature, but one way I'm enjoying swimming and the other I'm not.

TL:DR - The way that people present things to you makes a huge difference in how willing you are to try those things, and to overcome the parts you don't like in order to get to the parts you enjoy.

(I'm not saying you should tell people that every aspect of the hobby is amazing fun all the time. I'm not really saying you should do anything, honestly - you do you. All I want to get across is that in my experience, telling new players about the things you enjoy in the hobby tends to make them go "Yeah, that sounds cool, I'll give it a shot," whereas telling them about all the things you dislike tends to make them go "Ugh, that sounds awful, I'll find a different hobby." One of those leads to new players in your community, and the other doesn't.)

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