Red Moon Head Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 First Game using her today. Hold This, El mayor, Fransisco and The Judge dragging her up the board and even an austringer or two moving her late turn. That's one hell of a missile flying about the enemies half of the board turn 1 & 2! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandias79 Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 When it comes down to two masters, I always think about which I would use for certain strategies/schemes. With these two, I am struggling to think of what strategies/schemes I would take Lady J over Dr. Doug. I can see maybe taking her if I'm going up against Nico or Ramos for the token removal, but other than that I'm having a tough time. True, but if someone declares Arcanists and the strat is Problem is, you won't know if it's Nico or Ramos. Would you take Lady J against all the ressurs? Or all Arcanists? I might take J against Ressurs- the ability to keep corpse counters from even hitting the table is fantastic, and shuts down Nico, Seamus, Sebastian and Toshiro's summons. On top of the other synergies against undead models. I like the idea of a melee beatstick master in things like Reckoning and Collect the Bounty, though head hunter is probably more of a Hoffman game. Are the roles played by Lady J and Doug as melee masters a little more specific? Sure. But if you can drop a crew that's good at doing the scheme and strats, then maybe a melee master like J is more about "Okay, these guys will get the job done. Lady J is only here to try and take out your threats, and break your machine. ENinja True enough, but if someone declares Arcanists in any table quarter strat, I'm probably safe in assuming Ramos. I can see her for Reckoning or Collect the Bounty, about as much as I can see McMourning. I can also see her if Make them Suffer is in the scheme pool. I also like Hoffman for Headhunter, three drags and the ability of Hoffman to move them and pick up the counter (or a watcher with the (0) Interact upgrade), yes please! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EntrepeNinja Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 Or machine puppet with the take new position? Machine Puppet, and you're dead and drop a head. Machine Puppet, take new position and pick up a head. @TheRedMoonHead Sounds like fun- but it's a lot of resources to devote for a turn one explosion. Perhaps if we're relating J to the same sort of job as the viks it's more take T1 to setup a turn two massacre, then pull the trigger early turn two. Or start with buffs, then Bury her so they don't drop off at end of turn? Hmmm... ENinja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpectreEliteGaming Posted May 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 Haha! I got called out for this thread on MWM podcast... now that I feel like a scrub, allow me to expalin myself. Like I said before, I'm really just looking for a "top 2/3" of a faction I'm interested in much like how you (Rudy) declared Colette, Ramos, and Kaeris to be your top 3 of arcanists. I'm not trying to say which (between McM and Justice) is definitively better - just trying to see if I'm missing something. I hear a lot of Justice talk but not much Guild McM in comparison even though McM clearly can cover a great deal of things. Honestly though, I'm not especially thrilled about guild and aside from Perdita and McM I really don't care for any others. I'm on your Colette/Ramos boat though for sure. But I would probably try to do Marcus for a third (non-construct and can jump between aggro/disruption pretty well). From what I've seen you really only need two masters from your chosen faction - one as a main and a backup to do what your main cannot do... ex. ramos/colette, "lilith"(though i like zoraida)/dreamer, nico/seamus, perdita/McM(McCabe, actually, but i dun like him), levy/daw, somer/ophelia, and who cares about 10T - is pretty much how I'm feeling about my future master prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 Neither Lady J nor McMourning makes it into my guild top three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 I like McMourning if you (for whatever reason) aren't a fan of McCabe. Both of them hit the balance of offense/support/scheming that I enjoy a lot in theory and struggle to use to its fullest extent in game. But then Lucius is my strongest master and Sonnia is my weakest so what do I know? (For the record I rank the entire M&SU sub-faction between the two of them) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EntrepeNinja Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 Heh heh heh... I didn't mean to call you out. Yeah- Just like with Arcanists... If I were to choose three today they'd probably be: Hoffman, McMourning, Lucas McCabe Mostly for the same reasons I chose Colette and Ramos. Hoffman: Baller at hold position or kill strats: Turf War, Guard the Stash, Headhunter, Collect the Bounty etc McMourning: Good at interact and scheme marker schemes and strats (this would leave the strat to my hired crew, often) notably, Stake a Claim, Plant explosives, spring the trap, Squatters rights, etc. If there's a lot of scheme markers in the pool, Doug's my guy. McCabe: He's the wildcard. If deliver the message and frame for murder are in the pool? Dear lord. That being said, he does a lot of things very well. So there's some overlap with the former two. I don't have a lot of ranged, but I find that that is because I don't played ranged super well. Any time the crew is asked to be somewhere doing something? You're probably going to be seeing people up close and personal. I'm still waiting to unlock Perdita in my personal playstyle. I think there's potential there, but for the most part "Bang bang bang bang bang!" isn't something that cries out to me for attention. Lady Justice? She's my Mei Feng. So much fun to play, and a lot of times sub par on a broad spectrum, but CAN be amazing when the stars align. ENinja 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 I played Lady Justice today in a Story Encounter (Sabotage) with Shindig. Have to say the upgrade that dissalows going out of her engage worked like a charm We didn`t attack anyone whole game (except Fees on Ototo with 2 Poison from Lawyer) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpectreEliteGaming Posted May 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Very interesting, glad to see the different opinions. Rudy - Yeah, honestly the only master I see myself playing a lot of in guild is perdita - I really don't care for much else, however, all I have to do is paint up hoffman and I could run him since I did his whole box (minus guardian) for Levy. I'll give him a try, because - why not? Guild just doesn't float my boat - i've had a hard time narrowing it down to top 3 (my original list was perdita, perdita, and perdita) though perdita would probably be one of my top 5 masters overall - more on that later. I'm big on bullying people with artillery in wargames so I can see how we would play differentially, anyway. It's al about the artillery, baby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EntrepeNinja Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 See, I'm the opposite- I love bullying in melee. Get up in their grill, and make it hard for them to do their job. Of course that means, mismanaging placement means I can get shot to s&^%. I'm trying to branch out into medium and long ranged characters. I played Lynch the other day, and what did I do? Walked him right into engagement with McMournign. And he died. I was not surprised. It's just a different mindset. So Doug, he's a front line. Hoffman? Puppet support. Those are what I do well. But the ones who directly interact, but from a distance? That's my shortfall. Now that the thread has gone completely off the rail. O,O; ENinja 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Neither Lady J nor McMourning makes it into my guild top three. Perdita, Sonnia, Lucius? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Perdita, Sonnia, Lucius?Perdita, Sonnia, McCabe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Perdita, Sonnia, McCabe Wow. McCabe? Really. I was guessing between Lucius and Hoffman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zinc Lich Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Perdita, Sonnia, McCabe I agree completely. McCabe just answers too many questions too easily with his upgrades, Promises is one of the most powerful buff auras out there, he has really easy access to Reactivate, and he turns Guild Hounds into some of the best scheme runners in the game. The more tech of his I see, the more cemented in one of the top slots he is, especially considering that the guild is famously starved for dedicated scheme completing power compared to the other factions. I think that McMourning is a close fourth, though. He plays a very strong game and gets VPs very easily, on top of just trivializing lists that rely on Hard to Wound or Armor. Hoffman and Lucius are both fine masters, but they just don't stack up against the really powerful extra AP masters... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lusciousmccabe Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 I find the "they just don't stack up against the really powerful extra so masters." funny, when Hoffman and lucious hand out extra ap like candy. I can't speak on Hoffman, but Lucius is certainly around the bottom of the barrel in terms of things he can give AP to and how easy it is to do so. He's got a few frills that should make up for this, but generally don't do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zinc Lich Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 I find the "they just don't stack up against the really powerful extra so masters." funny, when Hoffman and lucious hand out extra ap like candy. Also I will never understand why Perdita is always number 1. Anything she can do Sonnia does with blasts. Meh prefance i guess. I had a big reply half typed, but this thread is off topic enough. The ap-multiplying masters, if I'm not mistaken, are Colette, Collodi, Hoffman, Lucius, and Ulix. If I had to rank them: 1) Colette- if you don't think she's the best, you haven't played a good enough opponent. 2) Ulix- enormously wide ranging, powerful effects, plus competent summoning, kept out of the number one slot by poor model selection. 3) Collodi- Controlling attacks and huge library of powerful AoE buffs, excellent hiring options. 4) Lucius- Excellent range on his AP multiplying effects, let down by how card intensive it can be, mediocre triggers, and by the fact he occasionally paralyzes what he targets. 5) Hoffman- Machine Puppet has the most restrictive targeting restrictions next to Ulix's Prod/Shot in the Rear, and denies triggers. Perdita is universally loved because she has an excellent statline, access to movement without using any of her valuable AP, ignores armor and incorporeal, and is almost always at least neutral on damage flips, on top of having a surprising amount of passive support abilities and bar none the best totem in the Guild arsenal. There really isn't anything she *can't* do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zinc Lich Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Prompt is amazing no doubt. Ulix really? Collodi is ap denial and gain, would say better than Colette in some ways. Lucious is all about set up. And a stalker should help your paralyze problem. If only Hoffman had accomplice. But still 4 ap puppeting constructs is hardly poor. No triggers does hurt but hey. You forget Zoraida and Hamelin. Both have obey. Which by itself is amazing. On the dita love. I understand. Oh I do. But she pays her 0 to ignore incorporeal. Or to ignore cover. Sonnia does both. Fire and all that. If dita is hitting straight flips all the time it's cause of papa loco and not her trigger which is more random. Sonnia can hire papa loco also. So now Sonnia is at 1 less moderate damage But has blasts reaching out and touching things. On the support side dita has what ? +2 wp for only family members maybe faster than you? While Sonnia is rocking flame walls and countspell aura. So dita is selling +3 df -2 wounds +1 moderate damage, and possible anti-armor. Sonnia is selling blasts flame walls anti-lure +2 wounds possible Ca9!! and possible shooting though walls. So yes I fail to see how dita is number 1 in your minds. I would accept a tie. Between the 2. But never above. Perdita also has a faster walk speed and access to free movement and disengagement. She's actually stronger in melee than at range, which is something Sonnia can't really brag about. She also filters cards for you on turns where you don't need either of her Trick Shooting (0)s. And she *also* has a big WP buff bubble, and ignores Manipulative-style effects. And then, on top of that, her totem has an enormous 6 inch push with no casting duel, and both of them have Obey effects in a sub faction where everything has Companion. You hit the nail on the head when you were talking about Hoffman: chain activations combined with Obey effects is really, really good. I will never really forgive the forum for removing the option of getting the suit on Perdita's Obey from both her Avatar and the Emissary because "its better to just shoot her gun instead"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Perdita does have MASSIVELY stronger synergies to tap into than Sonnia does. Leaving aside the general Papa/Cisco>Box setups (because any Guild master can use them) the Family still offers incredible synergy and movement bull in a faction normally balanced around not having those things... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 I will never really forgive the forum for removing the option of getting the suit on Perdita's Obey from both her Avatar and the Emissary because "its better to just shoot her gun instead"... So agree. Very narrow thinking. I was actually surprised that Justin went that way. ...his track record has him not following that kind of narrow mindedness. ....oh well. ..I guess even the great can't be perfect all the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zinc Lich Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 So agree. Very narrow thinking. I was actually surprised that Justin went that way. ...his track record has him not following that kind of narrow mindedness. ....oh well. ..I guess even the great can't be perfect all the time I will take a moment to say that I really like the things that they came up with instead. I do think that Santiago and Nino deserve a little love, and Perdita definitely doesn't need to be more buff. The Avatar is cool and is a great love letter to her 1e model. Now I kind of wish they were still around so I could pick one up I wouldn't say it's what I was voting for, but what I wanted wasn't what the majority did. I'm content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 I will take a moment to say that I really like the things that they came up with instead. I do think that Santiago and Nino deserve a little love, and Perdita definitely doesn't need to be more buff. The Avatar is cool and is a great love letter to her 1e model. Now I kind of wish they were still around so I could pick one up I wouldn't say it's what I was voting for, but what I wanted wasn't what the majority did. I'm content. Actually, I think the majority voted for the Mask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Actually, I think the majority voted for the Mask. Me too. Though I voted for the Nino and Santiago buff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Me too. Though I voted for the Nino and Santiago buff. Me too. Can SS the Mask. Cannot buff the little ones that easy. Let's see what Justin does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Me too. Can SS the Mask. Cannot buff the little ones that easy. Let's see what Justin does. Yeah exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 I guess I should have added some smily faces or something.......I was merely implying that since it wasn't exactly how I said it should be, then Justin must be narrow-minded and obviously imperfect.....since as we all know, I am never wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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