papa smurf Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 Df5 merc that can do things. Or df2 void wretch who dies cause it's the start of the turn or near enough that cards are still in your hand. Has a gun which does do decent damage. And has a sword which does do decent damage again. People overate incorporeal. Some times or a good. Sometimes it is meaningless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lusciousmccabe Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 If they take damage it means they are already dead Toss a rat at them! To be fair you can easily take a Desperate Mercenary for some low priority task. If you want a model to drop a scheme marker in your deployment zone and then loiter in a table quarter it doesn't really matter if it's a Merc or a Wretch or a Flying Rat. Not being chargeable and having a gun probably aren't the worst options for that kind of duty either. What really hurts them is that the other options can synergize with something other than a rat to the face and you can't build a list out of low-priority jobs, so taking them in multiples doesn't really happen. The one attribute they possess that the others don't is a cool hat though, and we all know how important that is. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 4 stone model. Unless you want to babysit them near henchman or master. Like I said, careful positioning. Df5 merc that can do things. Or df2 void wretch who dies cause it's the start of the turn or near enough that cards are still in your hand. Has a gun which does do decent damage. And has a sword which does do decent damage again. People overate incorporeal. Some times or a good. Sometimes it is meaningless Incorporeal is a great piece of defensive tech not because of the damage reduction (which is nice) but because on boards with enough terrain it means you can usually avoid being targeted entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 The one attribute they possess that the others don't is a cool hat though, and we all know how important that is. There can never be enough top hats. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 There can never be enough top hats. This is very true. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carcosa Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 You never know when you will need a top hat........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniello_s Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 Like I said, careful positioning. Incorporeal is a great piece of defensive tech not because of the damage reduction (which is nice) but because on boards with enough terrain it means you can usually avoid being targeted entirely. Agreed. Zooming through the LOS blockers with Ht1 incorporeal model is what I like. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 Agreed. Zooming through the LOS blockers with Ht1 incorporeal model is what I like. True. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 I haven't really found the Ht1 thing to be much of an advantage. Ht2 models can still see them over Ht1 terrain, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carcosa Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 I do not believe so, not if they are right next to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papa smurf Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Yes my ht 2 model can see you Gremlin hiding behind a ht1 wall at an distance. Heck a ht 3 model can see a ht1 model behind a ht2 wall. Being small only matters never. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeton Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Yes my ht 2 model can see you Gremlin hiding behind a ht1 wall at an distance. Heck a ht 3 model can see a ht1 model behind a ht2 wall. Being small only matters never. It matters quite a lot if the model trying to attack you is only Ht 1. Otherwise, it's pretty irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniello_s Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Just hide Ht1 models behind Ht2 piece of terrain. Problem sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papa smurf Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 It matters quite a lot if the model trying to attack you is only Ht 1. Otherwise, it's pretty irrelevant. ? In words of the rule book if I see you, you see me. Not an exact quote. But well enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeton Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Yes. So a Ht1 model trying to attack your Ht1 model behind a Ht1 obstacle is unable to draw LoS - if your model was Ht2, they'd get shot. Only if the attacker is Ht2+ does Ht1 becomes meaningless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Going back to the original topic. Lazarus and Vanessa make for a pretty cool little tag team with the Viks. Vanessa can use her (0) to get some extra mileage out of the big guy whilst the Viks pair up to murder stuff, the cool thing is (0) Command Construct just says target non-leader construct can take a (1) Action, this can be Walk, Focus, Defensive Stance or any of the (1) Actions on his card. It's a pretty cool and fairly versatile trick so you can have Lazarus do exactly what you need him to do before or even after he's activated. I've had these two tag teams take opposing flanks in a game of Reconnoiter and just walk up the field like a tidal wave of death smashing everything in their paths. On one flank a melee murder machine carving though the enemy whilst on the other a mobile battery of grenades and arcane fire decimating everything in sight. It was truly a sight to behold as my friends McMourning crew just fell apart around him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papa smurf Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Yes. So a Ht1 model trying to attack your Ht1 model behind a Ht1 obstacle is unable to draw LoS - if your model was Ht2, they'd get shot. Only if the attacker is Ht2+ does Ht1 becomes meaningless. So all games except Gremlin on Gremlin and even then some gremlins are ht2. Ht1 terrain things good for cover if applicable or if climable slowing things down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 So basically the Viks need some ranged support to back their devastating melee potential, with some healing to keep their fragile selves in the fight. Shooting Convict Gunslingers Lazarus Desperate Mercs (poor stats, but the male and female metals are cool) Sue Rusty Alyce (creating abominations could be fun) Hans Freikorps trappers/specialist Healing Hannah Vanessa Librarian Vanessa syncs well with her sisters (obviously) and her construct boost works well with Lazarus. Convict Gunslingers are not particularly tough, but dish out plentiful shooting damage. Something like this at 50 scrap? Outcasts Crew - 50 - Scrap Viktoria of Ashes -- 7 Pool +Sisters in Fury [2] +Sisters in Spirit [1] +Synchronized Slaying [2] Student of Conflict [4] Convict Gunslinger [7] Convict Gunslinger [7] Lazarus [10] Vanessa [8] +Howling Wolf Tattoo [1] Viktoria of Blood [0] +Mark of Shez'uul [2] There's 7 soulstones left, so a couple of upgrades, oath on Blood or something on the Convicts, are possible. I envisage using Vanessa, Lazarus and the Convicts as a firebase, hence Vanessa's HWT allowing the Convicts to rapid fire without discarding a card. Not so good for running though. The SoC could be traded out for the Malifaux Child, but I like the four sisters in the same team. One of the Convicts could be dropped for Sue, as that's only another 1 stone cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniello_s Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 Howling Wolf never paid off in my games, but maybe you'll more lucky with it. Now depends if you need something as scheme runners I would invest in at least one Void Wretch. And swapping one Convict Gunslinger for Sue is a very good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Drop Howling Wolf (not much good if you don't have a bunch of Mercs to use it on) and one Convict and take Sue. So many choices... At least it's not a Leveticus crew where there's over 100 options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeton Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 The list you've got there is quite killy, but you've got basically nothing that can quickly cover ground to place Scheme markers. In some scenarios that's going to be fine, but most of the time you'll want something mobile unless you intend to use the Viks to run Schemes (which can be a very effective way to switch up their game). If you're taking Sisters in Fury, I'd recommend a Malifaux Child instead of the Student. Move it upfield near Vanessa, and it can provide both healing and casting support for the Viktorias. The Vanessa/Lazarus combo has never felt particularly effective to me, even though it looks great on paper. YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniello_s Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 I found out that to run Vanessa - Lazarus combo you actually need at least 3 models or even 4. The minimum is Vanessa - Lazarus - Abomination which give you extra card a turn, occasionally even two cards when Lazarus Assimilate same action on Abomination. The 4th model would be Librarian to heal this poor Abomination when Lazarus' Assimilation worked 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 So basically the Viks need some ranged support to back their devastating melee potential, with some healing to keep their fragile selves in the fight. Not really no, this statement isn't true. They don't need it at all. It just makes the crew a lot more horrendous to deal with. I've ran an all shooting crew, all melee and 50/50 of each before and always done well. The Viks only synergize with Sisters and seeing as there is currently only 4 in the game 2 of which are free after spending 12ss for the complete set you've got 38ss to spend on other models. You can typically run anything with the Viks and do well. The Viks often tend to excel in their own little self contained bubble of death and destruction whilst the rest of the crew can operate on their own to achieve any objectives the Viks don't have time for. The Sister all have amazing melee potential, some ranged support and 2 of the 4 can heal them. They have pretty much all they need already. Anything else added to the crew is just gravy on the already awesome roast dinner I found out that to run Vanessa - Lazarus combo you actually need at least 3 models or even 4. The minimum is Vanessa - Lazarus - Abomination which give you extra card a turn, occasionally even two cards when Lazarus Assimilate same action on Abomination. The 4th model would be Librarian to heal this poor Abomination when Lazarus' Assimilation worked Whilst I don't agree that you need the Abom in the group as based on my experiences they work together as a pair quite nicely, this little shenanigan of yours sounds pretty awesome! As for the Librarian, well, they are pretty much a staple in many of my Outcast crews these days. I often prefer to run one instead of Vanessa with the Viks if I'm looking for some magical and healing support. I don't always run one but having Survivalist on Ashes with a Librarian Babysitter + back-up is a rather nice little trick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniello_s Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 +1 for above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Not really no, this statement isn't true. They don't need it at all. It just makes the crew a lot more horrendous to deal with. I've ran an all shooting crew, all melee and 50/50 of each before and always done well. The Viks only synergize with Sisters and seeing as there is currently only 4 in the game 2 of which are free after spending 12ss for the complete set you've got 38ss to spend on other models. You can typically run anything with the Viks and do well. The Viks often tend to excel in their own little self contained bubble of death and destruction whilst the rest of the crew can operate on their own to achieve any objectives the Viks don't have time for. The Sister all have amazing melee potential, some ranged support and 2 of the 4 can heal them. They have pretty much all they need already. Anything else added to the crew is just gravy on the already awesome roast dinner I just had the strangest mental image of the two Viks and Vanessa strolling around showing the Student of Conflict the correct way to chop off heads while she engages in the typical airheaded blonde "why?" questions as she practices. Much like Mindy on Animaniacs. From the sounds of things a couple of Void Wraiths wouldn't hurt, but I think I've used up my budget for the month. Maybe next month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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