Non Gremlin Brewmaster

[Jewomie]

I feel like "hold their hair back" is somewhat counter productive to brewmaster. In my experience, even though he doesn't NEED poison to work, he really doesn't want to be removing it himself. Paralize is great, but at the cost of giving them all that WP back? I think it's situational at best for me. If someone were to get away from the bubble but still had a good deal of poison, it could be good, and on a lucky McMourning mess up you could really mess him up. otherwise, i'm going to stick with the activation control and drinking game it up.

Pick yer poison is probably my favorite way to control my opponent's hand. once they let me do it once or twice, then they live in fear that i'm going to keep it up and try to get cards out of their hand quickly, leading to them not being able to cheat. which is always fantastic.

I'll have to give whiskey golem a try one of these days. he's just so expensive that it's hard for me to make room. lol

[Inquisitor Wall]

I'm dying to try out whiskey golem with smoke grenades to help him get up the table as a screen for other members of the crew. Just need to finish painting him up

[Jewomie]

that..... is a great idea...

Let me know how it goes! I think you just gave me an idea that makes him worth a shot!

[Math Mathonwy]

that..... is a great idea...

Let me know how it goes! I think you just gave me an idea that makes him worth a shot!

A shot of whiskey?

...

(I'm so sorry)

[EntrepeNinja]

I just typed up a big long post which I accidently scrolled away from... Grrr.... Highlights.

 

Peformers- Inside the bubble, the enemy has to pass a drinking contest and a manipulative check. That's rude. And awesome. On top of lure, poison bombs, positioning and anti schemes, I don't see a reason not to run one, if not two.

 

Fingers- He can add poison like a champ (ml7 for p3 against a single target. Great. Trigger to make WP checks for +2 on all models nearby? Brilliant.) He can scheme like a champ. (1ap to clear a scheme marker at range, and place a friendly one  at range, and no ca or tn to make it go off? Ew.) With drinking "Problem", he's even got a sort of lure on a 0 action he didn't have before anyways. And on top of all that, take a swig makes him a backup combat healer. With drinking contest on a trichi model, he can throw 3 2/4/6 heals on a nearby model. 

 

Shinobi- Head games on top of high potential movement. Good mid stone threat, and swift scheme runners. Potentially a little pricey. Espeically in thunders, as you need to buy an upgrade for them.

 

Tannen- Cooler is disgusting. Use the obeys and pick your poison abilities to push him to just inside the front edge of drinking contest, and he can shut down models while remaining manipulative. Lure things into both auras, and they're done. "I want to walk away from this clusterf*&^$" "Drinking contest. K. Discard to cheat. Alright, declaring a disengaging strike. Discard to cheat." And if Deliver the Message or Spring the Trap are in the pool, you can obey him to use "What brings you" to add another chatty bubble to stop them.

 

Brewie himself. Look- He's amazing at shutting things down. I played two games with him this weekend. One was a loss 3-5. One was a tie 8-8. The opponent in both cases were two different players- playing gremlin brewmaster. I had the game going really well for the first three turns both times. And then in turn 4 and 5, the opponent won initiative, and I was on the back foot for Drinking contest, and they swung it back 'round. Maybe in a non-mirror it wouldn't have been as swingy, but he REALLY wants to go first. Stones for initiative will be wanted. In gremlins, you can bring a trixiebell to let you cheat it. Thunders don't have that option. 

 

Fun master. Looking forward to more games. Gonna try and get back to gremlins as well- probably my go to for turfwar and guard the stash at this point. Maybe even extraction- though if they present a wall of meat, and you're not knocking it down fast enough, that one can get away from you.

[chris_havoc]

Going to have my first game since beta tomorrow as I finally got the crew! I think Binge is going to be great against summoning crews. I also think with Misdirection it's going to straight up kick ass! I do like the idea of a Performer adding a Lure and getting models in close is going to be good less reliance on Obey. I think on paper I prefer Ferment River Monks to Moon Shinobi but I don't have the models so I will wait to try them out. I think because I am running two it also means I get to include Misdirection if I take Monks instead. I LOVE the Whiskey Golem on paper. Fast, survivable, and has an awesome damage track. He also spreads Poison around pretty great and that means everyone (except him) hits more easily in The Brewmaster's or Wesley's bubble. Just one thing from above Obey can't be used on Masters. Giving Swill to Shinobi is pretty great though.

The crew I am basing my stuff off of is this:

Brewmaster
  Binge
  Running Tab

Fingers

 Drinking "Problem"

 

Whiskey Golem
  Angry Drunk

Apprentice Wesley

2 x Moon Shinobi

Performer

[EntrepeNinja]

Could play that list in gremlins and not need running tab.

 

You could also just proxie the moon shinobi as fermented rivers if you were to swap both out. But I would suggest giving the shinobi a try. the first time your opponent cheats down to put you at a positive (ergo negative) twist is pure magic.

 

I think Fingers with "Problem" is amazing. Others are skeptical- lemme know what you think. 

 

ENinja

[chris_havoc]

Yeah but I don't own Gremlins and if I do use Fermented Monks I will be using Misdirection. The performer is also exchangeable for Chiaki if I find I need Condition removal at all. 2/4/6 Heal, what's not to like? I know I mentioned it in another thread but I am interested to try out Komainu with Brewie. Wp attacks for days, Bishop may not be the worst addition either.

P.S. I am so keen to try out Sensei Yu with like all the crews I have but extra (0) in a BM (hehe) crew is just amazing.

[EntrepeNinja]

Right? I wish Mei had a good 0 to make use of that.

 

Poking through the wave three stuff- I found Lust again. One she comes out, 10 Thunders brewmaster is gonna be bananas.

 

0 Action that pushes a model (friendly or enemy) towards any other model.

Then a 1ap action that places an enemy model into base contact with another enemy model. 

 

So- "Brewie! Push into range of that guy! Hey you over there! Place into b2b with that guy also!"

 

... Looks pretty good.

 

ENinja

[Pyrflamme]

Going to have my first game since beta tomorrow as I finally got the crew! I think Binge is going to be great against summoning crews. I also think with Misdirection it's going to straight up kick ass! I do like the idea of a Performer adding a Lure and getting models in close is going to be good less reliance on Obey. I think on paper I prefer Ferment River Monks to Moon Shinobi but I don't have the models so I will wait to try them out. I think because I am running two it also means I get to include Misdirection if I take Monks instead. I LOVE the Whiskey Golem on paper. Fast, survivable, and has an awesome damage track. He also spreads Poison around pretty great and that means everyone (except him) hits more easily in The Brewmaster's or Wesley's bubble. Just one thing from above Obey can't be used on Masters. Giving Swill to Shinobi is pretty great though.

The crew I am basing my stuff off of is this:

Brewmaster

  Binge

  Running Tab

Fingers

 Drinking "Problem"

 

Whiskey Golem

  Angry Drunk

Apprentice Wesley

2 x Moon Shinobi

Performer

One thing.

 

I don't have my copy of the big book with me at the moment - gave it to a friend to look over - but I think Angry Drunk (Whiskey Golem's upgrade) is Gremlin only. I recommend shifting Drinking Problem to him, as I did in my game mentioned earlier.

[Jewomie]

hmmm, I don't have my book/cards either, but I think you are right.

[Pyrflamme]

Sad thing is, the NE Whiskey didn't come with his upgrade, so I can't double-check the actual card either :/

[chris_havoc]

Nope, Dual Faction. All of the upgrades specific to them are just not the models themselves.

[Inquisitor Wall]

I played a second game with brewmaster this weekend, and I'm still finding him really difficult to be effective. It was a terrible match up of turf war with all interact schemes against a WP dropping Dreamer crew.

I find that the only thing brewmaster did each turn was put up drinking contest. And as long as the opponent is smart enough to push out of 3" and then make Ca or ranged attacks, he was pretty defenseless. I did hold my own until the end of turn 5, but he still seems tough to keep models in the bubble. I am curious to try out Lust with the new book.

Smoke grenades on the wiskey golem was really good especially combined with sidir and promises.

[EntrepeNinja]

I would say, Brewie does a couple things well. (Past just drinking contest).

 

He can be a force multiplier, either by using pick your poison on your own guys or going for an obey on an enemy. If they've got a low WP, and a good attack- that's a great chance to turn the tables.

 

And he can paint a target extremely effectively. If you are able to, in 3 ap, get hangover off against a model you want dead, that may well be a turn well spent. And if you get if off once early, you've got a good chance of getting off again. Double negative flips against all things forever is nearly a death sentence- inside drinking contest, or not.

 

Turf war should be great for brewie- if you use your models to push the turf models into the drinking contest zone, then tear them apart by the end of the turn you can deny fairly well. If it's super schemey take Fingers, and let him deny enemy schemes while also doing friendly scheme schemes. "You have line in the sand? Weird. Cause that looks like my protect territory..."

 

Glad to hear Smoke Grenades + W.G. worked out. Love the idea of dragging in Sidir and doing a tag team. Also, the ranged threat on Sidir makes skirting the drinking contest bubble potentially dangerous.

[rgarbonzo]

Sidir (with Promises) and Tannen are 2 models that really work well with Brewmaster, also Sensei Yu with Promising Disciple and Fermented River Style can be a nice beatstick replacement for the WG, not to mention the ability to use Brewie's (0) actions like One For the Road to pass out even more Poison and his Airburst Action that can speed up models.

[EntrepeNinja]

Important to note: 

 

If Sensei Yu puts up the Drinking Contest Aura, and the person taking the test falls outside the range of "(1) On The House", the duel is technically moot, as they can't take the action, and therefore (if my understanding is correct), may take their original action. 

 

Past that, yeah, I love the idea of sensei Yu. I may buy the box for the High Rivers and Yu, as I don't reallllyyy have a want to play Shenlong. (I'm sure if I got the box I would eventually play him and fall in love.

 

ENinja

[rgarbonzo]

He can also give you a free interact by removing his Focused condition that he can gain from hitting something to take an interact. If he has poison you can Binge him to give him positive flips to attack and damage in addition to whatever the duel total is, kill off model, interact for scheme

[Inquisitor Wall]

My initial thought of focusing the crew around brewmaster's abilities may not be the best idea. Maybe using him and a performer is really all the required synergy to tie up key models of the opponent while using the rest of the crew to run schemes and such. The whole crew focusing on poison and shutting down the enemy might just be a bit too much to be effective.

Also against enemies with push effects such as lure or the dreamer can pull model out of brewmasters bubble which is a tough thing to look out for.

[BigHammer]

If you go for a performer, an Oiran is a decent addition as well. Her Wp buff is useful, she provides another lure, her melee attack causes poison just for hitting, a 0SS upgrade on a damage dealer gives her fast and focussed pretty easily, and, for added synergy, she can prevent a Ruthless model from wading in and beating your performer to death with the trigger on her melee (needs a tome and to damage, but if you have Sensei Yu and Hidden Agenda, she's going to be using her focus to get that attack, which gives her +1 to the total for using focus within range of Yu). Synergy coming out of every orifice.

[Lawgnome]

I had my first game with TT brewmaster last night.  I lost pretty terrifically vs. Rasputina, but it really was through bad plays on my part.  I really like brewie, and look forward to trying out different things with him the next time I try.

 

It was a 50 SS game.  I had:

 

 - Brewie

       Binge

       Running Tab

 - Fingers

       Drinking problem

 - Apprentice Wesley

 - 2x moon shinobi

 - 2x illuminated

 - performer

 

I played against

 

 - Raspy

     Whatever the push and ice pillar upgrades are and the shatter upgrade

 - Snowstorm

     the upgrade that stops activations when hit by melee attacks

 - Wendigo

 - 2x december acolytes

 - 3x silent ones

 

We were playing turf war.  I had plant evidence and cursed object, and he had assassinate and a line in the sand

 

Mistakes that I made: I pushed too far, too quickly.  I had everything set up for Fingers and the moon shinobi to be very mobile scheme runners.  Instead, I activated the illuminated first and walked right up into easy december acolyte range.  Scratch one illuminated from the top.  I pushed brewie up way too far, not realizing that each of the silent ones is a mini raspy.  I was used to mostly melee fighters, so it just didn't occur to me.  By the end of turn one, Wesley was the new brewmaster, and I had lost both an illuminated and my performer.  

 

Decent tactical decisions:  I was able to lock down Snowstorm indefinitely, but raspy was able to get away.  I got a lot of movement out of the moon shinobi, and the ability to hit WP prevented a lot of the defensive tricks from her crew.  During set up, I set both shinobi in range of fingers.  His very first activation hit both of them with poison 3, so they were zipping all over the place.  He also got a clutch 6 wd heal on Brewie, so I think that drinking problem was definitely worth it.

 

 

For the future, I don't know that I am going to take binge.  If he had a crow in hand, it was totally useless vs his crew (paralyze vs frozen heart).  I didn't have a mask in hand, so I couldn't even use it to move Brewie around.  And honestly, I got better use of my AP by handing out hangovers.

 

Fingers and the moon shinobis get along great.  I got a lot of pushes out of that initial poison hit from fingers, and it really let me get my shinobis anywhere that I wanted.  Also, it is hilarious to see someone cheat out an ace on the defense flip.  Shinobis mess everything up.

 

When dealing with december acolytes, I need to remember to let them pull me to them.  They are going to set up out of charge range of my stuff.  If the are 12 from Brewie, give them a hangover.  If they are 12 from an illuminated, let them pull it in.  That sets me up for an easy charge later, rather than just giving them an easy target without the benefit of regenerate.

 

Play defensively with Brewie.  I don't need to start the party bubble immediately.  Any hangovers I can generate at range will be far more useful for future attacks, rather than just pushing myself into harms way.  ESPECIALLY against a heavy casting crew.  They won't care if they accidentally randomize into their own guys, because they will just heal up due to the drinking contest anyway.

 

I currently have some snipers on order, and will probably pick up a dawn serpent too.  I'm not sure how often I will take Fingers, since 14 points (running tab + drinking problem) is such a massive part of your crew.  He's great at what he does, but I might be able to get more use out of those points elsewhere.

 

 

All that said, I still had a great time playing with him.  It will definitely take more work to figure out the best way to run him, but he certainly is fun.

[DeleteAccount]

I´m in the camp that believes that drinking contest, at least in Ten Thunders, is a trap. Since Ten Thunders aren´t too competent in the art of spreading poison, I´d rather pass on blowing too many soulstones o dodgy upgrades to get the Tri Chi clan in or on the few models that we have that can give poison and just focus on debuffing everything that moves. Hangover is an amazing action and frankly all you need to make Brewmaster work for you. The only one of his upgrades I take nowadays is Choose your Poison simply because it gives me a cheap obey with any low masks I may have in hand on friendlies. I tend to just take him with stuff that has powerful actions but don´t connect as much as they could, Fuhatsu (who will be substituted by Envy) or Samurai for example love Hangover since it suddenly means you are hitting with those powerful actions with a lot more ease and also allows Brewy to keep a good distance away from the action.

[chris_havoc]

I disagree that Running Tab is a waste of points just on the basis that you are likely going to run him in scheme heavy games. So the ability to remove markers is pretty good anyway. I've not had many games with Brewie but from what I can see Fingers with Drinking Problem and Brewie himself are all you need to get his Drinking Contest working effectively. Wesley adds to that too but also the ability to bring Brewmaster back under the right circumstances.

Thinking Yu without Fermented Style is better actually. So he can benefit from his bonuses with Focus. He already gives out Poison so maybe Wandering River style to get Brewmaster to or from danger areas and give out fast while doing it.

[EntrepeNinja]

And with Obey and Pick your Poison at your disposal, you can make a samurai double up on attacks. All without fear of killin' themselves. 

 

And Wesley can use PyP as well- so you don't even have to waste Brewmaster's AP doing it.

 

Eninja