Theoryfauxing Pandora

[Joel]

but its not so easy to remove Pandora.  If your opponent did not anticipate you using Pandora, then doubly so.

[Patzer]

Indeed. If you run into Sonnia with Francisco, a bunch of stalkers (all radiating that filthy, filthy, disrupt magic), then you are going to have problems. Most of the times, that will not happen and your opponent will only have a couple of things that is good against what Pandora can do. 

[Joel]

and even under these circumstances you still have terrifying 13(all), fears given form and the Inflict tactical action that both can do damage while ignoring the disrupt magic - Pandora can still put out frighting levels of damage even when apparently "neutered"

[Ludvig]

You might want to consider survivability and attack options against models who ignore Manipulative and Horror and have a high WP stat with   on defense against your attacks. Also, as Patzer stated above, what do you do if every Ca action you make is at   or even     from a bunch of Sonnias Witch Hunters? (There are a few other similar abilities in the game if I am not mistaken).

 

It might be a good idea to maybe sacrifice some of the stuff doing the same thing to add a few more classicly tanky models with nasty non-Ca attacks targeting Df like Illuminated (beating dead horse, I know) or Waldgeists (if you like denial you will love them!) or maybe Teddy (why am I doing this?!). Kade for instance is evil as hell but will go down to one focused attack from a lot of the heavy hitters in this game.

 

Depending on your regular opponents you could of course face people who have basically no defence against Ca and Wp but it's always dangerous to rely on that. Hope you get at chance to try a couple of lists in quick succession, I have made a lot of lists that looked good on paper but failed horribly on the table. Please note that the last part is not any judgement on your list or you!

 

Playing with the same master and scheme-pool two games in a row but letting both players tweak their lists a little can be a very good way of learning what works against what. That also lets you see what your enemy will bring if they know you will be playing Pandora. You could even let them know you will be using Pandora next game again but let them choose another master.

[Patzer]

and even under these circumstances you still have terrifying 13(all), fears given form and the Inflict tactical action that both can do damage while ignoring the disrupt magic - Pandora can still put out frighting levels of damage even when apparently "neutered"

One of the mayor arguments against taking Voices to me. Pandy can still put the hurt out by just being around places (with FGF and Box that is). Even when you run into something as nasty as Raspy, Pandora can still do a lot with that upgrade set up, while Voices is nearly unusable.

[Joel]

I have used voices on occasion, but it always seems to be a reactive measure - and even then its not a great counter.  Taking Box means I can go on the offence and force people to react to me.  With incite and possibly nobody likes me running, the control of activation order is often as good as paralysis, has no natural immunities and provides plenty of control of the board.

 

Box

Fears Given Form

Fugue State

 

are my three common upgrades on Pandora, and allow her plenty of flexibility.

[Patzer]

When I have used Voice I always wished that I had brought the Box instead. Not that Voices is bad, but the Box is just outstanding.

 

I usually use the same set up. If I feel that Fugue is not necessary in order to prevent anything I will switch it for Aether Connection most times. Box and Fears Given Form are the staples though.

[Joel]

as where I, when I deem Fugue isn't necessary, usually just drop it for more soulstones in the cache.  I haven't run aether connection on Pandora yet, but I'm tempted to soon.

[Patzer]

Try it! Its a good last line of defence, especially if you want to play aggressive.

[Joel]

I will, its just that scheme pools/strategies recently keep suggesting fugue state instead.  I love turning off the ability to pick up heads of flip squat markers

[Patzer]

I haven't tried Pandy in Headhunter yet. I have turned to Lilith for that one of late. However, I love Pandora in Squatter's. I think she is one of the best in the game in that strategy, and a lot of tricks she can pull off there seems to be useful in headhunter too.

My usual Squatter's core

 

Pandora

Fears

Fuge

Box

Waldegeists x2

Doppelganger

Prim Magic (two additional Nullify sources)

Season for schemes with the remaining ss.

[gideonrav]

Hi,I have some experience with voice upgrade , but I have not played box. Paralize is really strong, more with incite (so your opponent cant remove the condition) and is easy enough with ranged attack (since it doesnt need a gun attack on your opponent). However, I need some advice about sorrows and insidious madness. I mean about the order or the situations where you place them together and how could I maximize their impact in the game. Thanks

[Joel]

One example would be deployment. On turn 1 the insidious moves 7" forward and drops a scheme marker (perfect placement for protect territory). Later in the turn, the sorrow uses misery loves company to place in base contact in the far side of the insidious, then uses it again to leap into base contact with an activated enemy model.

Meanwhile, pandora uses incite against 2 other models.

Next turn, you move the insidious upto within 4" of the sorrow infested model, maybe drops another scheme marker, then next activation, the sorrow paralyses the model. Using the incites, opponent can't stop this, and has a hard time cheating it too. He'll be stuck for the rest of the game too.

Often though, it's not about having them close to each other, but within 4" and 6" respectively of a target pandora is wanting to end. The IM ans Sorrow can be 10-11" apart from each other and still combine their effects.

[Patzer]

Amazing stuff Joel. You continue to wear the crown of filth with such grace.

[Dirial]

Amazing stuff Joel. You continue to wear the crown of filth with such grace.

 

I think there are multiple crowns of filth around.

[Carcosa]

Joel

 

I am wondering -how- the model is "stuck for the rest of the game"?

I can see you repeating the sequence in order to continuously apply the paralyzed effect to a model, but that is a lot of AP's to hold up one model.

What am I missing?

[Fetid Strumpet]

That's the same argument for why an ap to give slow is bad, why trade 1 ap for 1 ap? It depends on what you are locking down. Does it matter how many ap if you are locking down Howard, nekima, or an enemy master? Additionally there are strats, like turf war, which just require models to be in particular places. So models standing around locking a big enemy piece down can still be useful, even if they do nothing else with their ap.

That's my perspective anyway.

[gideonrav]

Thank you, so with box Ill try to incite some later in the turn, and then place insidious or sorrows in position or even try to kill some enemy big model with pandora. Because with insidious cheat is really expensive and sorrow increase the damage. And terrifying is a good shield, more if insidious are close. But, When you use to play Pandora? Any scheme? Any crew?

[Patzer]

I think there are multiple crowns of filth around.

There are indeed several rivalling courts  

 

Thank you, so with box Ill try to incite some later in the turn, and then place insidious or sorrows in position or even try to kill some enemy big model with pandora. Because with insidious cheat is really expensive and sorrow increase the damage. And terrifying is a good shield, more if insidious are close. But, When you use to play Pandora? Any scheme? Any crew?

Pandora can do any strategy. At all depends on her crew. I regard her as really strong in Turf War, Extraction, Squatter's Rights, Headhunter, and Stake a Claim. Mainly because she either gets to have her crew close in order to get all buffs and debuffs going, and the others are good strategies for her since Pandora can make interacting a problem for the opposing side. With that said, she can do very well in the other strategies too. She can kill with the best of them, so Reckoning, Collect the Bounty, Reconnoiter are all good strategies for her. In interference she can engage a whole bunch of models with her massive engagement range, and then probably kill bunches of the opposing crew. Many players feel that Interference and Reconnoiter are bad strategies for her, but I couldn't disagree more.

[Joel]

I agree, there is little she can't do well. She is my go-to for reckoning in neverborn, but I've used her in every strategy and seldom been disappointed.

BTW, the sorrow paralysing a model very turn thing doesn't cost any AP beyond the sorrow's own ones once he's in place, you'll be inciting with pandora anyway if you're doing it right. Locking down a Howard Langston or a rail golem can seriously dent your opponent's plans.

[gideonrav]

I must say that Barbados is really useful with Pandora in this way. That (0) is gold. I have played pandora twice, once with each limited upgrade, and both are good. She may not be the best master, but I think she is really solid, enough for me. Candy and Pandora with fear upgrade are dangerous but if you are careful it really works.

[Patzer]

No master is the best, according to me at least. Pandora is in the top of the heap though.

[Seismic134]

I may of missed it but does anyone rake barbaros. I find his action to make people take wp duels to attack other models except barbaros pretty good.

[zFiend]

I may of missed it but does anyone rake barbaros. I find his action to make people take wp duels to attack other models except barbaros pretty good.

It looks like a match made in heaven on paper but I haven't seen it nor heard much about it.

[Patzer]

Some people like him with Pandora for Challenge, and the fact that he is quite sturdy. I don't like him. If he could take his (2) action while charging he would have been more interesting. He just brings a little to little to the table, for his cost, for my taste.