Yan Blow?

[jonahmaul]

I played him quite a few times when I first got the box because he's cool and being able to bring back Izamu/Yin etc. is pretty nice/powerful.  But as I played more he just seemed quite dull and as others have pointed out I couldn't see a time when I would take over another Master.

[Corpsalot]

I'll take back my previous statement about his heal being okay. I played with him today and his heal is actually REALLY good when he has chi. Being able to cheat an 8 of anything (with +3 chi) to guarantee a 4 wound heal on a 0 action is actually really good. With how easy it is to get chi, he shouldn't have a problem getting a heal off easily every turn. Sure it competes with Ascendance, but having such a reliable consistent heal is really nice.

[MasterDisaster]

Once again I will play the Yan's advocate. The Chi condition can quite easily make Yan de facto df/wp 8, impossible to wound, and/or incorporeal. Terracotta Curse can in the right situation paralyse a whole opposing crew, or at least severely hamper them. It can make Yan a very good supporter and resser of the ancestors too!

 

All true but he just bores me to death. Ca 8 is respectable but why bother with just 8 when I can play Hoffman for Ca 10 antics. His damage is piss poor and if I wanted to pick up upgrades mid game I could play Hoffman or Shenlong. He just feels like a cocktail of all the other Masters effectively wielding all their powers but a lot less potent because they've been watered down in the mix. There isn't a single trick in Yan Lo's bag other than the Chi mechanic and the occasional Enforcer summon that another Master I own can't do better than Yan Lo and I think that's why he doesn't make the cut for me. Having all those tricks in one bag whilst somewhat useful just doesn't suit my play style.

 

I'm more of an all or nothing kind of gamer. If I want Support I'll grab Nico, Hoffman or Colette. If I want raw damage output I reach for the Viks, Lilith or Perdita. I don't tend to get on with Yan Lo because he doesn't specialize in any one thing. In my previous example I mentioned Von Schill who is similar to Yan Lo in his generalist nature. I think the difference with Von Schill is whilst being already very durable he also makes his entire crew infinitely more difficult to take out without having to spend any cards, actions or Chi to do it. A Freikorps crew can be one of the toughest to take out in the game given all their armour, immunity to blasts and pulse damage and a metric tonne of healing. Sure Von Schill is fairly generalized but he also specializes in rock solid defenses for his crew. Yan Lo can't really boast to doing anything better or at least on par with anybody else. In my opinion he has nothing to make him stand above the rest of his faction's Masters. To me he seems to be overshadowed a lot by the other Masters. 

[Corpsalot]

 Having all those tricks in one bag whilst somewhat useful just doesn't suit my play style.

 

 

Not only does he not suit many people's playstyle, but I don't think pure generalists are good in malifaux. Having versatility and being a generalist is great when you don't know what your objectives are or who you are fighting (like many other miniature wargames), but in Malifaux you cater a list SPECIALIZED for the strats, schemes, and faction you KNOW you are going to be playing. If you are forced to stick with only 1 master for an entire tournament or event, than I think Yan Lo becomes a good choice.

[Patzer]

All true but he just bores me to death. Ca 8 is respectable but why bother with just 8 when I can play Hoffman for Ca 10 antics. His damage is piss poor and if I wanted to pick up upgrades mid game I could play Hoffman or Shenlong. He just feels like a cocktail of all the other Masters effectively wielding all their powers but a lot less potent because they've been watered down in the mix. There isn't a single trick in Yan Lo's bag other than the Chi mechanic and the occasional Enforcer summon that another Master I own can't do better than Yan Lo and I think that's why he doesn't make the cut for me. Having all those tricks in one bag whilst somewhat useful just doesn't suit my play style.

 

I'm more of an all or nothing kind of gamer. If I want Support I'll grab Nico, Hoffman or Colette. If I want raw damage output I reach for the Viks, Lilith or Perdita. I don't tend to get on with Yan Lo because he doesn't specialize in any one thing. In my previous example I mentioned Von Schill who is similar to Yan Lo in his generalist nature. I think the difference with Von Schill is whilst being already very durable he also makes his entire crew infinitely more difficult to take out without having to spend any cards, actions or Chi to do it. A Freikorps crew can be one of the toughest to take out in the game given all their armour, immunity to blasts and pulse damage and a metric tonne of healing. Sure Von Schill is fairly generalized but he also specializes in rock solid defenses for his crew. Yan Lo can't really boast to doing anything better or at least on par with anybody else. In my opinion he has nothing to make him stand above the rest of his faction's Masters. To me he seems to be overshadowed a lot by the other Masters. 

So the bottom line is that Yan Lo needs to much effort to work well for your liking? While other "generalist" master either have an easier way of adapting, or have abilities that simply work.

 

Not only does he not suit many people's playstyle, but I don't think pure generalists are good in malifaux. Having versatility and being a generalist is great when you don't know what your objectives are or who you are fighting (like many other miniature wargames), but in Malifaux you cater a list SPECIALIZED for the strats, schemes, and faction you KNOW you are going to be playing. If you are forced to stick with only 1 master for an entire tournament or event, than I think Yan Lo becomes a good choice.

And generalist masters cannot tailor a crew specialized for one games' strat, scheme, and opposing faction? I don't think that is true. Some masters are specialists, but not in the sense that they are specialized for a specific strategy and scheme pool. Rather they are specialized for a certain job, which is adaptable to number of set-ups.

[MasterDisaster]

So the bottom line is that Yan Lo needs to much effort to work well for your liking? While other "generalist" master either have an easier way of adapting, or have abilities that simply work.

 

Essentially yeah, the best way I can describe him compared to the other generalists is he is like a shotgun compared to an assault rifle. Whilst they are both effective tools the shotgun takes a long time to load before it becomes effective whilst an assault rifle you just bang in a magazine and get to shooting. 

[zFiend]

Essentially yeah, the best way I can describe him compared to the other generalists is he is like a shotgun compared to an assault rifle. Whilst they are both effective tools the shotgun takes a long time to load before it becomes effective whilst an assault rifle you just bang in a magazine and get to shooting.

You are a poet.

[MasterDisaster]

Good thing I remembered my beret and turtle neck today!

[Adran]

I've played Yan Lo 4 or 5 times, and I've enjoyed his games.

I've not taken any other Ancestors with him, and that hasn't mattered. He has plenty to offer, and one of the advantages of Genralists that I like, is because they do several things, your opponents struggle to plan against them. If I'm facing the Viks, I know I need to try and stop some big Ml attacks against my whole crew. And yes, thats not the only thing they do, but it is the best thing in most cases, and for the Viks to do well you expect them to do a bunch of killing.

I've switched form setting up a turn when I hoped to kill loads with Hunpo assault (which is an excellent action), to actually using my movement tricks to drop unexpected schemes scoring me points.

 

I don't know how to explain it, but he does things, that other masters don't do. My whole game play with him is different than it would be with a different master. I could probably play a very similar list with him, as with any other master (at least the way I play them), and the whole style of the game is different.

I can't say there is a certain time where Yan lo is best, but in all honesty, I can't say that for any Master. When I pick Yan Lo, I don't feel handicapped.

 

And Its not entirely fair to say if you want to play generalist you'll pick Hoffman. You're supposed to pick faction before you know anything else about the game. And once you've picked Resurectionist, you can't pick Hoffman of Colette anymore. (But I will also show up to friendly games plnning on playing 1 master., and just make do with them regardless)

[underdog6750]

An assault rifle cant be used to breach a door, a shot gun can. Both are tools in a sections arsenal and the best suited is chosen for the job at hand.

 

just like Yan lo. Sure there are times you will prefer other masters, but when facing 10T or outcasts and you are unsure of what opposition to expect he can be great being able to "adapt to the flow of battle"

 

 

 

plus I find him great fun and aesthetically pleasing:) also in a competitive situation people don't plan on seeing me Lo so may be unsure of what to expect?

[dgraz]

Really neat points about the strength of a generalist master's ability to adapt to the flow of the game. I have question though. Do you feel that the Chi condition limits Yan to an extent since he needs to be somewhat near the action in order to ramp up the condition, thus being able to flourish? In other words, do you think the other generalist you spoke have more dependent ways of getting the most of their abilities?

That could be a mark against him but I don't think he needs to be all that close. My only real gripe when I played him was that there was literally almost nothing for him to do on turn 1.....other than move up.

[dgraz]

All true but he just bores me to death. Ca 8 is respectable but why bother with just 8 when I can play Hoffman for Ca 10 antics. His damage is piss poor and if I wanted to pick up upgrades mid game I could play Hoffman or Shenlong. He just feels like a cocktail of all the other Masters effectively wielding all their powers but a lot less potent because they've been watered down in the mix. There isn't a single trick in Yan Lo's bag other than the Chi mechanic and the occasional Enforcer summon that another Master I own can't do better than Yan Lo and I think that's why he doesn't make the cut for me. Having all those tricks in one bag whilst somewhat useful just doesn't suit my play style.

 

I'm more of an all or nothing kind of gamer. If I want Support I'll grab Nico, Hoffman or Colette. If I want raw damage output I reach for the Viks, Lilith or Perdita. I don't tend to get on with Yan Lo because he doesn't specialize in any one thing. In my previous example I mentioned Von Schill who is similar to Yan Lo in his generalist nature. I think the difference with Von Schill is whilst being already very durable he also makes his entire crew infinitely more difficult to take out without having to spend any cards, actions or Chi to do it. A Freikorps crew can be one of the toughest to take out in the game given all their armour, immunity to blasts and pulse damage and a metric tonne of healing. Sure Von Schill is fairly generalized but he also specializes in rock solid defenses for his crew. Yan Lo can't really boast to doing anything better or at least on par with anybody else. In my opinion he has nothing to make him stand above the rest of his faction's Masters. To me he seems to be overshadowed a lot by the other Masters. 

This entire post boiled down to me as ; 'Yan Lo is contrary to my play-style so he sucks'.

 

'If I want support I grab Hoffman or Shenlong'......play-style. Personally, I don't like to play Hoffman because he isn't all that flexible in his movement...there's a reason they call it the Hoff-ball. I don't like Shenlong because of all the record keeping and set-up I have to do all game. All play-style choices. Choosing to go for more damage output and less support is also simply a play-style choice. To say that he steals mechanics from other masters is kinda odd to me.....no one has the same combo of abilities that he has.......I mean, I guess Ophelia stole 'Dita's shooting....and Raspy stole Sonnia's blasty spells....and Lilith stole Lady J's sword?

 

Nothing personal MD....your post just exemplified the negative comments I've seen about Yan Lo......I haven't really seen anyone say why he sucks without it being more of a play-style choice. I don't think comparing him to more specialized masters is fair....of course a generalist can't compare to a specialist in the thing they specialize in, but they don't have all the tricks that a generalist has.

 

The internet is full of opinionated people....that doesn't make the opinion correct. Back in 1.5 when Marcus was like 'the worst master ever'.....I beat up tons of people with him and then a few people took him to big tourney's and did well....and still the "opinion" was that he sucked. Som'er was the same....worst master ever....until some people figured him out and then he was virtually broken. Just play who and what you want to play. There's also one other big thing to Yan Lo. I like him.......I like his fluff....I think he looks cool. For some people that aren't interested in being uber-competitive or min/maxing lists, that's enough.

[Lucidicide]

There's also one other big thing to Yan Lo. I like him.......I like his fluff....I think he looks cool.

 

Side note: Then you should paint him up really cool.

 

/whistles innocently

[jonahmaul]

 

There's also one other big thing to Yan Lo. I like him.......I like his fluff....I think he looks cool. For some people that aren't interested in being uber-competitive or min/maxing lists, that's enough.

And a very good reason!  I really enjoy his fluff and theme too.  He's also great fun to paint (I did flowers on his robe and it was loads of fun) so you should take Aaron's advice and paint yours ...

[MasterDisaster]

Nothing personal MD....your post just exemplified the negative comments I've seen about Yan Lo......I haven't really seen anyone say why he sucks without it being more of a play-style choice. I don't think comparing him to more specialized masters is fair....of course a generalist can't compare to a specialist in the thing they specialize in, but they don't have all the tricks that a generalist has.

 

No offence taken, a forum is a place to express you opinion and hear other opinions. It's true I don't like Yan Lo and I'll openly admit to that. He does nothing to wow me and I think he's pretty lackluster. The annoying thing for me is I love his art, fluff and models but as a Master on the table I just can't find a way to like him. To clarify I've never said outright he sucks, I've seen people pull out some pretty epic wins with him. What I've said is that he is boring and doesn't do anything original beyond the occasional Ancestor revival and Chi malarky.

 

He is consistently outclassed by other Masters in almost every single way and in my opinion the few things he does have going for him (specifically referring to his versatility here) is limited in comparison to other Masters as well. Nicodem for example is a support master who's summoning grants him way more versatility than Yan Lo brings, Kirai can also say the same. Shenlong and McCabe also are somewhat generalized in their approach and yet their upgrade mechanics are not only infinitely more interesting than Yan Lo's they are also way more versatile in how them employ those mechanics and this can also make them dramatically more flexible as a Master than Yan Lo. However, these are my my personal feelings on the old guy. I want to like him, just can't bring myself to play him anymore. At the end of the day you can't love them all, all the time. I also feel similarly about Sonnia and Hamelin. 

[Lucidicide]

And a very good reason!  I really enjoy his fluff and theme too.  He's also great fun to paint (I did flowers on his robe and it was loads of fun) so you should take Aaron's advice and paint yours ...

 

Oh man, I was testing out the banned word filter when you typed this. Freakin priceless. Sorry, I'm done now.

[jonahmaul]

Oh man, I was testing out the banned word filter when you typed this. Freakin priceless. Sorry, I'm done now.

Lol, I didn't know what was going on until I went back to the actual post!  Hilarious!

 

Also, Aaron is staff and what he says is official DGraz so you have to paint Yan Lo now (it's only in rules forums that it's not official ...*)

 

 

*I made this up - paint him anyway

[Dirial]

Oh man, I was testing out the banned word filter when you typed this. Freakin priceless. Sorry, I'm done now.

 

Muhahahahaha! I was about to call him out on that! Now that's an abuse of power if I have ever seen one!

 

(Aaron, how much do I have to pay to replace zFiend with Filthmonger?)

[Lucidicide]

Since I took it off topic...

 

I think Yan Lo is a perfectly fine Master. His strength is in his flexibility both before the game (in terms of hiring, such as what upgrades to bring) and during the game (in terms of having a lot of decent choices for actions). His playstyle won't be for everyone, though. I've seen people do great things with him, so it's just a matter of how you're playing it.

 

I know this is the Resser board, but he definitely has a strong place in 10T, if not more so than in Ressers.

[zFiend]

Since I took it off topic...

To the off-topic thread you go then derailer.

[MasterDisaster]

To the off-topic thread you go then derailer.

 

One of us! One of us! 

[zFiend]

One of us! One of us!

Burn!

[Rob Lo]

Basically, if you need your master to have a specific zing.. biggest gun, biggest sword, most summon-y.. you don't want to play Yan Lo. He's not that. I put my thoughts on why he's a good master to take in the other thread Chris linked above. You can tell your opponent not only the faction you're playing but go ahead and tell them Yan Lo, doesn't matter. As long as you have a decent assortment of models to pull from, they can't know what your game plan will be.

 

Get him in the middle of the action, especially when things are clumped up to any degree. He has options to do so many more things than your opponent can plan for. One game he can get up in there and move guys around, when people start playing safe to avoid that, fine, he sits back and plays support. They press the assault and he turns into the Oprah of face smashes. You get a Hunpo, and YOU get a Hunpo, and YOU get a Hunpo!

 

The deal with all of that is, little of it will be The Moment in a game. No one says "Wow, me trying to plan for what you could bring really lead to some poor crew choices for this game." Maybe that versatility he has leads to your opponent doing something wrong, and maybe it doesn't. The 4 pt heal that kept Izamu alive on the critical turn 3 isn't getting talked about afterwards. Izamu smashing through lines is what gets talked about. He's not shove them down your throat and delete models per turn Levi or Lady J.

 

Once you get beyond his generalist nature, I do think his offensive numbers are low, at the very least lackluster for what a master of his type should be. Not hugely, but significantly, and enough that it's more than enough to turn people off from playing him.

 

Beyond that, his crew is bloody awesome to paint if that's your deal.

[Pyrflamme]

I'm currently in the process of painting Yan Lo's crew plus Toshiro/Izamu, and while I don't have any formal experience with him, Resserrob's post strikes a chord with me after having read over his cards and various discussions. I plan on mostly playing him as TT so I have access to the aforementioned smorgasbord of options that will leave my opponent still unsure of what's going to go down, but I can see the same thing happening in Ressers.

 

I think what might strengthen his position in the eyes of others, though, would be expanding his hiring pool via development of new Retainer models, particularly single-faction Retainers (perhaps leaning more towards TT since I think pure-Resser Retainers currently has the edge), taking advantage of his Infiltration ability to give him options not available to other Masters in his factions.

[Math Mathonwy]

The internet is full of opinionated people....that doesn't make the opinion correct. Back in 1.5 when Marcus was like 'the worst master ever'.....I beat up tons of people with him and then a few people took him to big tourney's and did well....and still the "opinion" was that he sucked.

Playing him to theme sucked and continued to suck even after people had grokked how to use him.

Also note that you winning with a given Master isn't indicative of anything re:that Master's power level since you are a really good player. In Malifaux, skill plays a much bigger role than model balance since the balance is currently so good. But I really shudder to think what you would do to your meta were you to get excited about Dreamer or Levi.