izikial Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 From what I hear, see and some times experience arcanists and outcasts have the most luck competitively, I feel this is from there huge toolbox variety, some factions feel they have concessions to keep theme were those 2 dont, they force the oponant to change around them without needing to change them self's but at the same time having all the answers Do you agree? Do you see the same trend? Is it ok? Discuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fengor Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 Nope, I feel every faction has their variety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucidicide Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 I don't agree on multiple counts: I don't think Arcanists and Outcasts have the most luck competitively and I don't think that those two Factions force others to change to face them more so than other Factions do. I think there are certain Masters who are having more luck competitively, but I think that's largely because they get the most attention. The sheer number of people fielding Leveticus, for example, is quite high. Some of this is due to perceived power and some of it is due to the fact that he's always had a very popular following. Combine the two and you get more people playing him and therefore more wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 Variety you say? Arcanists and Outcasts you say? I raise you Rezzers. Now there's variety. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patzer Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 Define "most luck competitive". "Some factions feel they have concessions to keep theme were those 2 dont". Do you mean that other factions need to stick to themed crews, which is not the case with Arc and Outcast? Every master changes how you need to approach the game, some to a larger extent than others, but I don't think that most of them resides in Arcanists and Outcasts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lusciousmccabe Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 I'm also confused a bit by the initial post. Could you explain what you mean by toolbox variety? It sounds like you're saying they have access to a lot of different answers, but then if they don't change and the others factions do that kind of implies the opposite? No criticism intended by the way. I'd just need to know exactly what we're talking about before commenting on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 Well, both Levi and Arcanists play a lot of Mech Rider... who has all the answers without needing to change... so... yeah... I agree a tiny bit, but disagree on the whole... if you know what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 Whilst I would agree that Outcast and Arcanist have the largest potential hiring pools, I don't think that you really should try and build your list to counter your opponents list. I don't feel that any of the factions have too small a pool to be competative as a faction. I will accept that some factions will lean more on their master for some stratergues (i'm particually thinking guild and stake a claim here. Whilst any master can do it, there isn't a stand out minion/enforcer that does the job regardless of what else you select.). But I don't think they are particually more powerful than another faction. I'm Going to use Ben Crowe (UK number 1) as an example here. Last year he finished the Year as top Outcast player based on his Levi play. But He also managed to score over 80 rankings points in an event with every other faction over the year. (Podiumed with all factions over the year). So whilst he is currently doign really well with outcasts, he has shown he can do really well with which ever faction he puts on the table. I think a lot of the Levi/Colette power is due to the lower number of people that have played against them. They are strong, but one of there strengths is they play a different game to normal, and until you know the game you are in, you are going to struggle. Dreamer, Kirai and Ulix I think are 3 more masters which are very like that, and as players start to use them I would expect a lot of good results from them. And as people get good results, more people will play them, increasign their chance of gettign a top placing. So in summary, I don't see the trend, and therefore don't have a huge problem with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izikial Posted April 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 What i mean is that if some one says gremlins, then I'm thinking ranged damage and short stuff, ressers is tough stuff with cheep mobility, where as outcasts and arcanists have so many differant things living undead construct ranged melee fast slow numbers beatsticks. You cant try and guess. The tool box element is that there highering pools are so huge and varied you cant tailor a list against them meaning you have to play what ever your best at but will then get beat If the have a soft counter. also even just in house these factions have answers others dont, I used to play arcanists and I never highered out of faction, now I'm mostly nb and I always have to, Johan, snipers, lawyers for lucius CUs in faction they are so lacking diversity that they cant cover there bases. Disclaimer, I'm not saying anything is op and broken and stuff, just that when I hear people saying there picking a faction to win they say arcanists and outcasts, Levi, viks (bit hit and miss), jackdaw, collet, rammos. So I think at the super high end they must have an edge, people go to tornies thinking need to have an answer to mech rider, where as the mech rider player isn't thinking about answers at all, just the best list they can make I love the game and I'm happy for it to stay as is, just if no one asks questions nothing ever happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybarite Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 You don't have to tailor a list to the opponent's faction. Tailoring a list to the schemes and strategy is more important I would say. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 What i mean is that if some one says gremlins, then I'm thinking ranged damage and short stuff, ressers is tough stuff with cheep mobility, where as outcasts and arcanists have so many differant things living undead construct ranged melee fast slow numbers beatsticks. You cant try and guess. So you've not faced Gremlin Pigs, or Rooster riders then? Or Trixie and Merris? Or Francois and Manco Rojo? The Brewmaster Lockdown? I really don't think you can define any faction in a brief sentance and have that apply to more than half the faction. gremlins can't do Undead (but neither can Arcanist). Can't really do non living very well, But have a large selection of Ranged, Melee, fast moving and/or heavy hitting models that can play about with the opponents crews in very different ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 I base it on this. I have heard people refer to the following factions as the most powerful: Arcanists Outcasts Ressers I've heard Gremlins discussed simply based on the surprise factor as people haven't played them as much (and some suggestion that things got out of beta that shouldn't have because of the lack of models to playtest with, though I don't buy that) You don't hear much discussion of Guild or Ten Thunders being overpowered. You only hear about Neverborn if Joel Henry is playing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxypoo Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 What i mean is that if some one says gremlins, then I'm thinking ranged damage and short stuff, ressers is tough stuff with cheep mobility, where as outcasts and arcanists have so many differant things living undead construct ranged melee fast slow numbers beatsticks. You cant try and guess. The tool box element is that there highering pools are so huge and varied you cant tailor a list against them meaning you have to play what ever your best at but will then get beat If the have a soft counter. also even just in house these factions have answers others dont, I used to play arcanists and I never highered out of faction, now I'm mostly nb and I always have to, Johan, snipers, lawyers for lucius CUs in faction they are so lacking diversity that they cant cover there bases. Disclaimer, I'm not saying anything is op and broken and stuff, just that when I hear people saying there picking a faction to win they say arcanists and outcasts, Levi, viks (bit hit and miss), jackdaw, collet, rammos. So I think at the super high end they must have an edge, people go to tornies thinking need to have an answer to mech rider, where as the mech rider player isn't thinking about answers at all, just the best list they can make If winning was simply based on being able to accurately counter your opponent's list, Ten Thunders would probably be the best faction since (in my opinion) their masters are the most different from each other compared to any other factions, with Outcasts being a close second. Aaron and Sybarite bring up good points in that you shouldn't tailor a list against your opponent but instead should tailor it to complete your strategies and schemes and that higher numbers of people playing a particular master/faction equal more wins with that master/faction. I'll use a Magic the Gathering analogy since I have the most competitive experience with that game. Every format has a series of popular decks that the vast majority of people play. Many people simply get the deck list from the internet and expect to win using it, but when you actually look at tournament standings, the same players generally win a lot of major tournaments, indicating that player skill generally trumps deck building. We're probably seeing a similar thing in Malifaux as the tournament scene is growing - people read on the internet that Leveticus/Collette/whomever is super powerful and decide to play that master for an easy win, but the best players generally still win the major tournaments. This effect is definitely part of the popularity of some masters/factions. You also have to consider things like accessibility of models and how complex a master's playstyle is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hateful Darkblack Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 I think the big appeal of Leveticus is that he's so well-documented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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