Dirial Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Yup... I dropped the RJ from my hand... you are under my control now! Now for your first action... Walk. Your 2nd action... Pinebox zFiend! Don't play Marshals often, do you? Walk, Pine Box? Really? They can do it on a charge, man. (Said the controlled model running after zFiend...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Don't play Marshals often, do you? Walk, Pine Box? Really? They can do it on a charge, man. (Said the controlled model running after zFiend...) Not recently no! I realize they can charge and Pinebox twice but what you failed to realize my good little minion is that you were already engaged with zFiend's filthy 3" engagement range so you had to walk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Aaaww yeees. 3". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Aaaww yeees. 3". Out of context that is nothing to be proud of! In context yup... you are a filthy little blighter so a 3" melee range seems fitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Not recently no! I realize they can charge and Pinebox twice but what you failed to realize my good little minion is that you were already engaged with zFiend's filthy 3" engagement range so you had to walk. And while we talk this out, he 'Loudest Squeal"d away. Damn triggers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 And while we talk this out, he 'Loudest Squeal"d away. Damn triggers. That dirty little filth monger! Well that's it, I've had enough of this! *flips table* I WIN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Well, safe to say that Dafty can mark this down again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Well, safe to say that Dafty can mark this down again. He sure can. our job here is done! The three Rezketeers, away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodiless Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 But I think It is matter of Local Meta. And in my opinion, If someone overlooks condition removal in malifaux, it means he/she needs to learn more things. Or they play Neverborn. Unless you feel like hiring Johan on every time you play, or only run Dreamer, condition removal is not in the cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Or they play Neverborn. Unless you feel like hiring Johan on every time you play, or only run Dreamer, condition removal is not in the cards. Taking condition removal to every game is a pretty far fetched requirement. I rarely even bother with it. If I happen to know that I am going against a faction where I might need it, I take it into consideration but not always even go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodiless Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 No argument there. I think if I was playing against Rezzers I would be likely to take Johan, and if I was playing Gremlins and thought the scenario favored Brewmaster I might take it as well. Otherwise I don't bother - although I have used Zoraida/Hungering Darkness to 'borrow' condition removal from my opponent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 although I have used Zoraida/Hungering Darkness to 'borrow' condition removal from my opponent. Amazing! That is a cool trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nical Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Even Neverborn can understand importance of condition removal. But Neverborn don't have good model for it, that makes problem. So I think that your opinion is not 'overlooking'. it is 'choice for other things'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodiless Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Fair enough. I am not ignoring it, there just isn't much I can do about it. Although I like your Collodi idea - that is a master I want to learn this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nical Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Back to Topic, Lilith can protect her and some essential models from debuff condition by terrain control. This is one of her advantage because Neverborn's condition removal is usually very limited. So I think Lilith can work well without condition removal generally. Simply, "Out of sight, Out of condition", too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Back to Topic, Lilith can protect her and some essetial models from debuff condition by terrain control. This is one of her advantage because Neverborn's condition removal is usually very limited. So I think Lilith can work well without condition removal generally. Simply, "Out of sight, Out of condition", too. True, between her not requiring LoS for Charges and Ca action she can often hide away to avoid these sorts of things, alternatively she can throw up a forest to block LoS mitigating many of the nastier conditions out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nical Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 So I think Lilith's main problem is thinking about her as Neverborn's LJ, and it makes most problems about her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 So I think Lilith's main problem is thinking about her as Neverborn's LJ, and it makes most problems about her. True, she has some similarities to LJ. She hits just as hard most of the time but much like LJ cannot take sustained beatings. Unlike LJ she also has unrivaled movement tricks and area denial at her disposal. She is more like Misaki really. She runs around picking off or assassinating key targets and running away again to find the next poor soul, although even this isn't an ideal comparison. Lilith does more for her crew than LJ and Misaki combined! LJ and Lilith is an understandable comparison but a short sighted one. LJ and Misaki are much more straightforward than Lilith is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patzer Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Like with a lot of the Neverborn masters, there aren't any great comparisons to them. I agree with MD that Misaki is a better comparison than Lady J, but not ideal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Like with a lot of the Neverborn masters, there aren't any great comparisons to them. I agree with MD that Misaki is a better comparison than Lady J, but not ideal. True although there are some similarities to other Masters and their play styles although some more so than others. Lilith - Misaki (Geurilla tactics, hit and run etc) Pandora - Brewmaster (slow and excruciating death via aura's and WP duels) Zoradia - Pffft... I care not for Gremlin Masters! Also know nothing about Zoraida but there is bound to be somebody vaguely similar. Lynch - Perdita (it's a loose comparison but go with it. Card manipulation, strong theme crew synergy, obey like stuff, shooting) Dreamer - Nicodem (Support and Summoning) Collodi - Hoffman (again somewhat loose but go with it, construct focus, death ball play style, support etc) Lucius - Colette (Out of activation control, strong scheme marker manipulation/interaction etc) With all this said and done although most of the Neverborn Masters have similar play styles to other Masters they do their thing in a very different way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuffedKiwi Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 Jumping back for a moment for the Condition-removal conversation, another trick I've pulled off (only once) was using a Doppleganger to mimic Chiaki's Memories Past attack action (remove a condition). I think at the time I mis-played it, since I then used the Doppleganger to remove a condition from herself, which I don't think I should have been able to do (that would require targeting herself with the attack action, though the Mimic action is a Tactical rather than an Attack, which is why I think I got it wrong at the time), but you can use Doppleganger to copy any model with a condition-removal (1) action, if you're then going to remove a condition from someone other than the Doppleganger. Not meaning to re-derail the Lilith thread, just wanted to throw this one out there too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crimzzen Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 What do you guys usually run with her? I've been running her theme crew but I see a lot of mention on waldgeist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowfane Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 I've run her with both. I'm not the greatest player, but personally I've found a nephilim crew to be more of a fast moving murder machine with some scheme running in the Tots, whilst the swampfiend lilith crew (which I love, by the way!) tends towards a less mobile but tougher crew (still with scheme runners though in the silurids) - thats just my personal impression though. I've also found I tend to use lilith differently depending on which style of crew I bring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patzer Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 I usually bring a mixed crew with her, thus rarely keeping to theme. Illuminated, Tots, Stitched, Puke Snake, Waldegeists, Silurids, Blackblood Shaman, Bad Juju, Tuco, McTavish, Spawn Mother, Kade and Teddy are what I usually bring with her. On the Waldegeists, they are outstanding. They bring some resilience to the crew, can work as summoning points for Bad Juju, is sneaky with their 2"-4" melee range, and they can create more terrain/cover for the crew. Not to mention that they can give out Rooted condition, which the pushy Nephilim/Kade+Teddy likes a lot. There is less than a handful of games where I didn't at least bring 1 of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PositronMike Posted April 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 I usually bring a mixed crew with her, thus rarely keeping to theme. Illuminated, Tots, Stitched, Puke Snake, Waldegeists, Silurids, Blackblood Shaman, Bad Juju, Tuco, McTavish, Spawn Mother, Kade and Teddy are what I usually bring with her. On the Waldegeists, they are outstanding. They bring some resilience to the crew, can work as summoning points for Bad Juju, is sneaky with their 2"-4" melee range, and they can create more terrain/cover for the crew. Not to mention that they can give out Rooted condition, which the pushy Nephilim/Kade+Teddy likes a lot. There is less than a handful of games where I didn't at least bring 1 of them. Since I have started using the Wicked Mistress upgrade Waldegeists have gone up in value for me even more. Getting rooted on a model and then using lilith to push them around makes it even more fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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