Sybaris Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 Imho Nekima has a potential for a broader market than just Neverborn players. The "Winged female demon" theme is by and large popular (given the amount of sculpts found from different companies). Personally it's how i found Malifaux, as i was looking for a generic "succubus" miniature for another game, which ultimately made me discover Wyrd and brought us (wife and i) as followers and backers of the game. Bottom line is we don't know why she's that size, or why she's that price. Wyrd likely has a much clearer idea. As a customer and fan of Malifaux and Nekima the least i can do (and that's all i can do) is to voice my concern and hope that something is done about it. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 Bottom line is we don't know why she's that size, or why she's that price. Wyrd likely has a much clearer idea. As a customer and fan of Malifaux and Nekima the least i can do (and that's all i can do) is to voice my concern and hope that something is done about it. Well said. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Ruckuss Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 I'd say more TT crews will use Fuhatsu / Snipers, than Nb crews will use Nekima. Plus you could also assume sales of 'new' models to the game would be higher than those of models which have had a sculpt in the past. Selling someone a new sculpt of an existing model is probably harder than selling a brand new model. I would disagree with both these points James. The vast majority of crews used by UK players on the tournament scene are plastic where possible, and most NB players I know have replaced at least some, if not all, of their models. Nekima 1.5 is also recognised as one of the trickiest models to put together, so I would actually put forward that ALOT of NB players (if not all I have spoken to) were looking to replace her. Speaking of which, shes awesome, and I would recommend her as being AT LEAST as good as the two models you game in your example above. Was she too big...probably.... Is she too small for her billed height....yes ....are her mammary glands WAY too big? Yes, they look totally out of proportion-page 3 jobby .Is it a shame she isn't as tall as say a teddy, or the same height, but slightly slimmer (!), as the mature neph, definitely. (Of course, all just IMO....) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laocorne Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 Here's a pic with the Katanaka and Nekima sprues side-by side: Comparison pic of the old Nekima model, showing scale. Based on the previous model and all the fluff, I was expecting something similar. (Edit: Not my pic. Found it online via Google.) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorschlag Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 @ Vorschlag: Actually no, the fluff indicates that Nekima was at least twice as tall as a human, while Lilith is basically human in appearance. Neverborn shape vary a lot...and some can change their appearance to suit their purpose (more obvious ones being Doppleganger, Graves and Tannen). You have a different take on skin walkers than I do but I suppose Lucius' new fluff seems to support that. Regarding her size I can't see her size mentioned in crossroads was it in 1.5? (I leave my old books at the local store) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 @Vorschlag: sure here goes "Her cloven hooves dug into the earth, and she rose, towering above the nearest man, easily doubling his size." "...and the creature's great sword, as long as a horse and wider than a man's waist..." Malifaux - Rising Powers, Ambush, p. 19 So the metal model was actually the correct size when taking the 1.5 fluff into account. Those stories are still recognised as valid, are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorschlag Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 Nice, thankyou, I always kind of liked the old metal, but don't play Nephilim, the new sculpt (not size) doesn't look as good, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagingRodian Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 So if I understand this correctly.....the massive, kick ass and correctly scaled metal model actually costs less than the plastic one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 Only perhaps in terms of money. In terms of agrevation assembling, transporting, and actually using the metal model will cost you far more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Wall Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 So I ordered both the rouge necromancy and nekima. Necromancy is perfect size. Nekima is really small. I love the pose, and the sculpt and I have been anticipating the release since the render was first spoiled. She is about the same height as captain dashel. The wing span for her is not really much larger than a model like a night terror. While the model is still an awesome sculpt, she certainly is not what I would have expected. Price aside, I would much prefer her to be the awesome center piece model that I have been waiting for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joedj Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 For game play purposes, I like that she's smaller. Less likely to be accidentally bumped/moved. The sneaky side of me says, 'Oh, she's not that threatening. Look how small she is...' For painting I'm glad she's got 'distinct' features to accentuate. Overall, I think a 20% upsize, to her whole figure, might have been more respectful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 Speaking of %, personally I'd go for 1.5 of what she's at atm, so 50% bigger. The sculpt is quite good, and in fact a larger model would make it even better, too. If it was just 20% off the right scale, i wouldn't bother to be honest and live with it...but it's just too far from expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike3838 Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 Wyrd can add my name to the "massively disappointed" column. My BF hasn't arrived yet, but as soon as it does, I think I will be attempting to sell the plastic Nekima model from it. I'm going to feel like a con man doing that and aiming to recoup $35, so I'd be surprised if Wyrd don't feel a little of that feeling themselves already. The justification of tooling costs vs expected number of units just don't hold up in the face of models like Hannah (same price, massive), Killjoy (same size, half the price), Ama No Zako (bigger, half the price) etc. All of those models are niche and not widely used by players. I'm in the camp of scale issues myself. I mean look at her stood next to Barbaros again and tell us that's intentional. A big, impressive she-demon would have attracted more players to the game. This release does the opposite and sours existing players instead. The bottom line? I won't be ordering new release stuff from Wyrd sales ever again. Not until I've seen photos of the models first. I've lost my trust that I'm going to be happy with my purchase. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 Hannah's a mercenary, so is killjoy, and ama no zako is a dual faction model, all of which give those models a potential wider market than Nekima. I'm not in any way necessarily disagreeing with your disappointment or your other reasons, but your examples of models at different price points really doesn't hold up to make the point you want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 @Fetid: the potential market also depends on a faction's popularity and the characters concepts appreciation by the players. Then we must add the popularity of a model for its own value as a miniature (i.e. some model types can generate sales just by being of that type...in which case i dare say Nekima has an advantage on the models you named, even though i guess Killjoy may also enjoy some attraction with all zombie/rotting games going on). And then we need to add all other factors we don't even know or can only speculate about. So all in all, i personally don't think we can make a precise assessment on the "potential market" to justify a pricing policy without the numbers that Wyrd have. They certainly are aware of how popular or irrelevent it is...so for all we know they may have priced that model at 35 in expectation of high OR low sales. To me that means we are just completely in the blue about it. The thing is, some of us are not satisfied with the size of the model, either because it doesn't fit the character as we "expected" to get, or because of the price tag attached to it. Those two reasons are valid from a customer's point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 I wasn't commenting on satisfaction or dissatisfaction with a particular price point. He named models with a bigger sales market than Nekima. And popularity of faction might play a small portion of it, but in multiple factions, and in multiple threads there is discussion on utilizing Hannah and Killjoy, and I've seen both used in every faction in games I've played. You can only see Nekima in games with NB, and then only a small subsection. Which means that like it or not there IS a smaller market for her, at least among those that plan on buying models they intent to use in games. You are totally right that we can't know for certain why she is priced as she is, we can only speculate. Regardless she is priced as she is, and you can voice your support by buying or not buying her. Wyrd's numbers and business model placed her at the price point she is, and they obviously have a reason for it, and I doubt its a "well she's going to sell well because she's Nekima and a popular model in a popular faction, lets minimize material cost, and over inflate the price and make lots of Profit from her!" To me, there is little point to us trying to say we know what something should be priced at. As you point out we don't have access to Wyrd's numbers, so we can't know why in fact she priced as she is. All we can do as say we are not satisfied with it and then not buy it, and really leave the matter there. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike3838 Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 I wish that was an option - unfortunately the not-buying-it ship has already sailed for those of us that feel misled by the purchase already, which is probably why the dissatisfaction is more acute than if Wyrd had just released a model that people didnt like. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevorin Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 I still suspect that this is a scale issue, similar to the Vik problem. If so, I pray that Wyrd gets it fixed, and offers replacements for those of us who bought her, if not...I guess I stay disappointed. I can't even bring myself to assemble it. The actual parts are smaller than Barbaros, FFS (face, legs, arms, etc). Maybe I will use the wings for a Lilith conversion (On Black Wings). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausplosions Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 It has to be a scale issue. To sell a miniature that is KNOWN for its size, for a sizeable price, without showing us a comparison shot, and only giving us a render. Surely they expected it to be bigger. I certainly hope so, because otherwise, it has sold the units it has to this point, for the price it sold for, on the back of unrealistic and UN-corrected expectations. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikvar Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 It has to be a scale issue. To sell a miniature that is KNOWN for its size, for a sizeable price, without showing us a comparison shot, and only giving us a render. Surely they expected it to be bigger. I certainly hope so, because otherwise, it has sold the units it has to this point, for the price it sold for, on the back of unrealistic and UN-corrected expectations. This is what I think as well, and why I keep asking for something official from Wyrd... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laocorne Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 All we can do as say we are not satisfied with it and then not buy it, and really leave the matter there. The problem is we -already- bought it, with expectations based on the previous model and fluff. It's too late to vote with our money, so we're voicing our dissatisfaction here. Also attempting to warn others away so that -they- can avoid it. Basically, the company has lost a lot of good will from me. As someone else posted already, I'm not buying another model based on art and renders alone. I'm waiting for pics and reviews from now on, because I don't feel like I can trust Wyrd anymore. Not with this and all the other sizing issues that they've been having. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 To support the idea that it might be a scale issue, i'm looking at the rest of the range. There's quite a few of the previously "large" miniatures that actually got beefed up rather than shrinked down on the metal-to-plastic transition. The features on human sized models are finer (compare Lilith versions or Lady Justice) but the big guys got bigger from what i can see (Lord Chompy Bits, Ice Golem, Bad Juju, Rogue Necromancy, Sabertooth and Adder...etc.). The new big guys are also pretty large...If someone could put the Rail Golem and Cojo besides the new and old Nekima...it'd illustrate the point as well. P.S. i won't touch the model atm, i'll wait for an official answer as well. What does worry me is that Wyrd has been silent on this so far...i mean they obviously opened some boxes for QA and saw the product before shipping it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 I'd be interested to see what Wyrd's official stance on this subject is. Personally I don't mind the scale but I'm keen to hear what Wyrd think / have to say about it. There has been a few fluff changes here and there between edition changes so it's possible Nekima has been deliberately scaled down. Still, this seems to have caused something of a frenzy of opinions on both sides of the fence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 She has dropped from Ht 4 to Ht 3 ruleswise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucidicide Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 http://wyrd-games.net/community/topic/105194-nekima-announcement/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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