So about the new Nekima model

[Sybaris]

I don't have my books right now but i do remember a line where it pretty much says that, i'll get back to you later today.

 

Edit: pm sent, apparently my memory is playing tricks and i can only find indirect text.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Thanks! =D

[Bengt]

An unnamed female Nephilim appears in the story Ambush in Rising Powers, I assume it's Nekima since she is introduced in that book. Anyway, she is described as very large and more than twice as tall as a human man.

[Grantt]

I like her; I was expecting her to be larger and more imposing, but the stance and sculpt look great. I'd definitely fill that base with stuff to make her a little more... threatening.

[Sybaris]

An unnamed female Nephilim appears in the story Ambush in Rising Powers, I assume it's Nekima since she is introduced in that book. Anyway, she is described as very large and more than twice as tall as a human man.

Indeed that's Nekima, everything fits the description, even the location where the fight takes place (outside Latigo). The "more than twice as tall as a human" also fit the old model correctly. From a writing perspective it was logical not to name her, since the protagonists of the story (Sonia's crew) visibly had no idea who she was, and this helped make sure that Nephilim were portrayed as alien as possible from the reader's point of view.

[SpiralngCadavr]

Yeah, other than that the character/narrative perspective doesn't recognize know who Nekima is, I don't think they were going for any ambiguity about who that was.

[Laocorne]

Just got my order in, and I'm massively disappointed in her size considering her monetary cost.

 

She's on a single small sprue for $35.

 

Two Katanaka Snipers are on a slightly larger sprue, with more pieces, for $18.

 

Hannah packs a full-size sprue for $35.

 

For the cost, I was expecting her to be a huge, imposing model. Something like the Peacekeeper (for which I paid less than half what I paid for her). This is the kind of pricing that I point out at the GW store as a reason I don't play their games anymore. What's the justification for selling a single, relatively small and uncomplex plastic model for $35?

[Vorschlag]

At least for fluff reasons it makes sense that she shouldn't tower over Lilith I suppose...of course that depends on your take on Nephilim genetics.....

[Myyrä]

At least for fluff reasons it makes sense that she shouldn't tower over Lilith I suppose...of course that depends on your take on Nephilim genetics.....

One of the sisters has wings while the other does not. Differences in size would be pretty minor genetic differences compared to that in our world. Unless of course the species in question goes through metamorphosis. (Which the nephilim seem to do.)

[Sybaris]

@ Vorschlag: Actually no, the fluff indicates that Nekima was at least twice as tall as a human, while Lilith is basically human in appearance. Neverborn shape vary a lot...and some can change their appearance to suit their purpose (more obvious ones being Doppleganger, Graves and Tannen).

 

@ Laocorne:  Sad that it turns out this way.

[ooshawn]

Just in my own opinion......... nothing against the way it looks, but for nekima.... I think its a crap model. It's a female young or barbaros. just my two cents

[gru6y]

Personally, I do not mind the price (I understand the reason behind it being so expensive) and I understand why Wyrd decided to make her significantly smaller (especially after the negative feedback the old model got).

I am, however in the 'waaay too small' camp.

The old model is very threatening and rightfully so, given the 1.5e statline. Even thought the stats have been 'cuddled' a bit to better suit the M2e meta, Nekima is still a beatstick most other models would not like to be 3" away from. Because of that, I believe she should be more imposing to add the psychological factor and make your opponent look at her and think 'That's one 12' tall vicious bitch charging my guys. How am I going to tackle that?'

 

Anyway, smaller standard model gives us more chance for a massive nightmare version.

[Ikvar]

Can we get an official answer if this was a mistake, or if it is indeed the correct size?

[Laocorne]

Personally, I do not mind the price (I understand the reason behind it being so expensive) 

 

And what reason would that be, exactly? I haven't seen anything that seems a valid reason for her to cost as much as she does. Fuhatsu is $5 cheaper, and is three models on a single base. He fills the same organizational slot in a crew.

 

If I had purchased Nekima in a physical store, I'd be trying to return her. Plenty of good proxies out there for half the cost.

[mythicFOX]

ALL IMHO

 

There are costs to produce a model other than the raw materials, so size doesn't exactly equal cost.  

 

What I expect is pushing Nekima's price up is her fixed costs. These costs are broadly the same regardless of how many of the model you make/sell, for example; mold making, design, handling, and administration. The fewer copies of a model you expect to sell the higher proportion of these fixed cost will need be present per unit, IE the higher the price will need to be in order to make it worth producing.

 

So two models with exactly the same amount of plastic in them will still need to cost different amounts depending on how many of each you expect to sell.  Given how unique and narrow in use Nekima is I'd expect her to be one of the lowest selling items in the range. So I'd expect her to be comparatively expensive.

 

Is she too expensive? That's is a subjective question to which we'd each have our own answer.

 

Personally speaking while Malifaux models are by no means cheap on a per model basis the low model count of the game still makes this one of, if not the, cheapest (live and mature) war-game on the market.

 

Besides I'm really more interested in how much fun I get for my money, not how much plastic.

[OTP]

You will only buy 1 fuhatsu or one pack of katanaka snipers to use the examples above. Is nekima likley to bought less oftern than fuhatsu? Same discussion as when the lone marshall was released. I like the scuplt ill still buy her. But its certainly a outlier price wise

[mythicFOX]

I'd say more TT crews will use Fuhatsu / Snipers, than Nb crews will use Nekima.  Plus you could also assume sales of 'new' models to the game would be higher than those of models which have had a sculpt in the past.  Selling someone a new sculpt of an existing model is probably harder than selling a brand new model.

[Laocorne]

I'd say more TT crews will use Fuhatsu / Snipers, than Nb crews will use Nekima.  Plus you could also assume sales of 'new' models to the game would be higher than those of models which have had a sculpt in the past.  Selling someone a new sculpt of an existing model is probably harder than selling a brand new model.

 

If anything, that's a reason to lower the cost. You don't increase the price on something to encourage sales.

 

And saying, "Well there are cheaper things in this range" still doesn't justify the outliers. It's another reason to be -more- upset about what I just got in the mail, since I have expectations regarding what I get for my money in Malifaux. If my wife were to ask me how much I paid for this, I'd be embarassed to tell her. It's a ripoff.

[Adran]

Lowering the price only will increase sales if they haven't already got close to market saturation.

And there is a smaller market for Nekima than there is for Fuhatsu.

 

Yes it is quite expensive. I'm not going to buy one, but then I already own a Nekima, and I quite like the metal model. I wouldn't have bought it at $20 either. 

(Whilst I have duplicated a few of my metal models with plastic, I've only had 2 purchases which didn't include at least 1 new model, and one of those was a transulcent box set. I'm not ruling out buying any set, but it needs to be pretty good for me to replace what I already own.)

Sorry you're disappointed at what you get for the money.

 

As I understand it, the amount of plastic is not hugely relevant to the cost, its the difficulty in making the mold, so a larger mold might be cheaper than a smaller mold if it was easier to make. I have no idea if the Nekima mold is more complicated than the Fuhatsu mold.

[Bengt]

its the difficulty in making the mold

How is that supposed to work exactly? I mean to make the mould you feed your 3D stuff into a milling machine and press start. It's not like you have gnomes chiselling out the mould with hand tools.

[Adran]

How is that supposed to work exactly? I mean to make the mould you feed your 3D stuff into a milling machine and press start. It's not like you have gnomes chiselling out the mould with hand tools.

 

I assume a simple mold is made quicker than a complex mold. I'm now making this all up, but if the milling machine (I magine a little drill like thing) can chisel the mold out in 1 plane then it would be much faster than if it needed 2 planes (Its milling would have to stop while it re-orientated itself to the new plane.)

[Laocorne]

I assume a simple mold is made quicker than a complex mold. I'm now making this all up, but if the milling machine (I magine a little drill like thing) can chisel the mold out in 1 plane then it would be much faster than if it needed 2 planes (Its milling would have to stop while it re-orientated itself to the new plane.)

 

It seems pretty obvious that the 3D design is taken apart to reduce protrusions before anything physical is even made. Which is why we end up with things like Yan Lo's beard as a separate piece. Aside from that, molds are made once. I don't see a reason production costs would differ. <Redacted by mod>

 

I'll just post pics of the Katanaka and Nekima sprues side-by-side when I get home. 

Edited December 19, 2014 by mythicFOX
See below

[mythicFOX]

<MOD HAT>

 

You're free to disagree with each other, and Wyrd, but you will not be rude to each other.

 

</MOD HAT>

Now where were we...

[mythicFOX]

I don't see a reason production costs would differ. 

 

Molds for plastic minis are, relatively speaking, expensive to make. That cost is the same if you're going to use the mold to cast 10 models or 10,000. The cost of the mold is effectively divided by the number of minis you're going to make. So if you're going to make less minis you divide the cost of the mold by a smaller number. So the model costs more to produce if you're going to produce a smaller number of models.

 

For example; If a mold costs 1000 soul stones to make, and you cast 100 minis from it then you need to add 10ss to cost of the mini to cover the mold. If you cast 1000 minis, then you add 1ss to the cost of the mini to cover the cost of the mold.

 

Similarly there are a range of other costs which aren't related to how many minis you cast, eg sculpting the model, designing the box etc. 

 

Models you expect to cast less of cost more money to produce. 

[r4st4f4n]

I think we’re falling into Theory-StandardAndPoors-faux. The route MythicFox reasoning took, would struggle facing Electrical Creation and Hoarcat Pride: they’re 4-5SS Minions that every Arcanist will want in multiple copies. In case of the EC, people with Ramos and Mech Rider would need 4+, and it would sell also to Hoffman and Leveticus players. That’d mean those single mini boxes should be underpriced, compared to other - maybe Rare1 - ones, are they?

 

I prefer to think this is just the last wave of the QC issue that have already been addressed, and that will end with this year, Nekima and the poor forgotten Hoffman’s 2^nd Hunter being the last ones.
Perhaps someone at the molds acted like the children, and when told not to make models oversized in Ht and overhanging the base, went too far in the opposite direction...

Then here we are completely free to choose whether to address this, or not: if they choose to do so, there might be people willing to buy the model for its actual price, some even not playing Malifaux, just collectors and Deamons fans, as for the old one, ‘cause the 3D model is very valid.
If it is more convenient to keep it this way, they’ll sell it to Neverborn players anyway, and those will just keep wonderin’ why does it cost twice the price of a 3 models box...