Friendly models within......

[Propatria]

We came up with a couple of situations tonight, and neither of us could definitively answer the questions that arose regarding these abilities.

Firstly;

Viktoria of Blood Tactical Action Flight of Dragons, reads "All friendly sister models within 2" and LOS of the target may immediately take a (1) MI acion....etc.  Then push all sister models  within 2"...etc."  We agree the push includes her, (it states 'all') but does the 1st portion include Viktoria of Blood, or, only other 'friendly' models?

Viktoria of Ashes' Dragons Bite tactical action raises the same question....does it include her as well within the "all friendly sisters within 6""?

 

It was the Vik's against Von Schill and regarding Von Schill's 'A Legend to Live Up To' ability..."all other friendly freikorps models within 'aura' 6"...etc.  As it is an aura, we realize it includes this model, but the above actions are not auras, so a little unclear as to whether or not the 'active' model is included.

 

Thanks in advance for any responses.

 

 

 

 

[Kadeton]

As long as the active model is within 2" of the target and has LoS to it, it will be included in the effects of the action. (Similarly for Dragon's Bite if the active model is within 6" of the target and has LoS.) They're not auras because the range of effect is measured from the target, not the active model.

[Seregon]

For the Viktorias, the acting model is included since it specifies "all friendly sister" models.

 

For Von Schill's "Legend to live up to", VS himself is not included since it specifies "other friendly freikorps"

[Propatria]

Well Seregon, I beg to differ on your conclusion regarding 'Legend to Live up to"...it is displayed as an aura on his card, and according to p50 Aura's..."By default, all objects within the aura's area, including the model it is centered on..." clearly indicates that Von Schill IS INCLUDED in this ability.

[Propatria]

Thanks for the replies all, but...not sure if I've gotten the answer to my actual question.

I fully realize that the Vik's 'Flight of Dragons' and 'Dragons Bite' are not aura's...they are tactical actions NOT described as aura's OR pulses on their applicable cards.

Therein lies the difficulty...the rulebook clearly states who or who is not included in auras and pulses, but nowhere is it 100% clearly indicated exactly what models are included in these tactical actions.

The descriptions state "ALL FRIENDLY SISTER MODELS", and we were not completely sure as to whether or not this description alluded to the model performing the action as well.  The phrasing is less than crystal clear, as you could argue that using the term 'friendly sister model' means OTHER THAN THE CASTER.

Anyone aware of FAQ relating to this, or/and a previous ruling?

 

Thanks again for any assistance.

[StuffedKiwi]

Seregon has the right of it re: Von Schill's Legend to Live Up To. Propatria is right that the 'default' effect of auras is all models within range, including the model it is centered on (p. 50 Big Rule Book), but the rules also say that 'some effects will note that only certain models are affected,' and the rule book goes on to give the example of a rule which limits its effects to 'Other friendly models.' 'Other' excludes the model the aura is centered on.

 

And Kadeton explained how the Viks' Flight of Dragons and Dragon's Bite work: Flight of Dragons targets an enemy model within 6. If the action succeeds, all friendly Sister models, which by definition of 'all' includes the caster, who are within 2 inches of the target (which means it might NOT include the caster, since the action has a range of 6) get a melee attack and then a push. Flight of Dragons has a range of 6 and effects all friendly sisters within 6, so I can't imagine a scenario in which it could succeed without including the casting sister in its effect. *edit* please don't way-lay the thread trying to think of scenarios which would exclude the casting model, that won't help the OP. *edit*

 

I guess I haven't answered part of Propatria's question, which is whether 'friendly' includes the casting/originating model. Which is, I think, the question whether a model is friendly to itself. I think it is. It's certainly not enemy to itself, and I don't think we need to include a separate category of neither friend nor enemy just to cover a model's relationship to itself. I think using 'friendly' here just covers those scenarios where a Viks crew is fighting against a Viks crew -- you don't get to make attacks with your opponent's sister models by using this ability.

 

The rules don't need an FAQ for unambiguous wording, since the wording is clear. 'All friendly sister models' does include the caster, since that's covered by 'all.' 'Other friendly models' does not include the originating model, since that's excluded by 'other.'

 

Hope that helps clarify. I often find that I can end up over-thinking these things. Common-sense understandings of language are best, outside of terms that the rulebook explicitly defines.

[Clement]

Don't have my manual handy, but pretty sure they explicitly call out that all models are friendly to themselves in there somewhere.

[Myyrä]

Don't have my manual handy, but pretty sure they explicitly call out that all models are friendly to themselves in there somewhere.

All models are friendly to themselves, but they don't count themselves as other models. That's reserved only for... well, other models.

[Propatria]

I think that explains it well enough for us...."other" excludes/"all" includes; basically.

Thanks all for the input.