Advice for a Guild McCabe newbe?

[MasterDisaster]

I considered using them with Lucius, but then I realized that spending his ap to have Wastrels get some extra shots is not very good use of ap.

 

Lucius wouldn't necessarily be spending AP to just make them attack. He can use Commanding Presence to make them generate an Action. so he's not wasting AP. He's Walking and generating an Attack. That's AP efficiency! Especially if the Wastrel is near a Lawyer

[Myyrä]

Lucius wouldn't necessarily be spending AP to just make them attack. He can use Commanding Presence to make them generate an Action. so he's not wasting AP. He's Walking and generating an Attack. That's AP efficiency! Especially if the Wastrel is near a Lawyer

It could be Rifleman or Death Marshal or Witchling Stalker or Warden or Hunter or Latigo Pistolero using that ap. Thus having Wastrel use it is not very good use of ap.

[EnternalVoid]

Oh wise ones:

 

I might be able to get me some McCabe in form of a box without the Wastrels. So my question is: In a Guild McCabe crew, do you miss the Wastrels when they are not there? And if so: what do they bring to the table other Guild minions can't?

 

To be honest in 2nd edition here I have hardly used my Wastrels.  I used them in the Beta and might have one in a list sometimes but generally I use those stones on others things.  I do love how they look though so they are great for Rps and what not.  For McCabe in Guild I favor Hounds, a Witchling Stalker, and Wardens as my general grunts. 

[Chumbalaya]

I rarely use Wastrels outside of McCabe, Lucius is about all that springs to mind as good for them.  They're fairly cheap and have a lot of utility, but they're squishy.  Healing and declaring triggers can give them a lot of flexibility in a crew, even with just one.  With McCabe they add in card cycling from Cast-Offs and extra AP economy by passing around the Badge of Speed after using the "free" Walk action.

 

I rarely use more than 2 with McCabe, but I could see sneaking one in to a Lucius crew to give me another cheap significant minion that can heal up damage Lucius does to his crew by recycling soul stones.

[admiralvorkraft]

I've tried one wastrel in a Lucius crew, and it went okay. You can occasionally get the healing to cancel out Devil's Deal, but you really have to plan your turns around a static(ish) Wastrel to get it to work, which is kind of annoying. I play a relatively mobile Lucius though, if you run a gunline then it might be more worthwhile.

[Chumbalaya]

Lucius has pretty good ways to get that Wastrel to keep up.  Commanding Presence, What Lackeys are For (double walk the Wastrel up, swap places, use Cast Offs with a crow to jump him to the scheme marker), or Issue Command in a pinch.  If you're running Surprisingly Loyal, Mr. Graves can toss him, Beckoners can lure him or Doppelganger can do both.

[admiralvorkraft]

It's true, that's why I said he was static(ish) rather than static. It still means building the turn around compensating for Devil's Deal rather than on how to directly accomplish objectives. It's certainly not a bad thing, it is something to be aware of.

[Chumbalaya]

Oh, for sure, it may not always be worth it. It'll come down to the opponent and schemes like always.

[EntrepeNinja]

I dunno, I agree with most of what's been said regarding Wastrels, but I find myself on the side of "What else could I be getting for 4 stones." For instance, a hound and a SS cache, or a brutal effigy, or a Witchling Stalker. Especially in a McCabe crew when I can also get a Luna which makes the hounds super useful. And with all the shenanigans with the passing upgrades to models that make them crazy (i.e. Reactivated Nimble Austringer. Brutal Effigy or Pale Rider with a Glowing saber), I find I run out of points before I get to "oh yeah, and a Wastrel".

 

ENinja

[Adran]

Personally the biggest thing I get from a wastrel is healing from the cast off action. And due to the triggers, whilst its a 2 action to do, I get a second effect from it, that I can control with just discarding any card.

 

Healing 2 on any model and getting an attack/move is pretty solid for a 4 stone model.

It makes it one of the best healers the guild can purchase (Healing almost as much as a Libraian can heal in a guild crew)

[Dirial]

Personally the biggest thing I get from a wastrel is healing from the cast off action. And due to the triggers, whilst its a 2 action to do, I get a second effect from it, that I can control with just discarding any card.

 

Healing 2 on any model and getting an attack/move is pretty solid for a 4 stone model.

It makes it one of the best healers the guild can purchase (Healing almost as much as a Libraian can heal in a guild crew)

 

This. I like one to follow Justice around, getting buffed by her Swordplay and healing her.

[Dirial]

Erm, the forum seems to have eaten my post. Okay, once again:

 

Personally the biggest thing I get from a wastrel is healing from the cast off action. And due to the triggers, whilst its a 2 action to do, I get a second effect from it, that I can control with just discarding any card.

 

Healing 2 on any model and getting an attack/move is pretty solid for a 4 stone model.

It makes it one of the best healers the guild can purchase (Healing almost as much as a Libraian can heal in a guild crew)

 

This. I use one sometimes with Justice, to heal her up while getting buffed by her Swordplay.

[Kogan Style]

Having faced Wastrels I can confirm they are a real pain once they are given upgrades and kept near to Sidir. His upgrade that boosts flips for models with upgrades and their ability to heal other models with upgrades means you have to spend a lot of AP to try to remove them or Sidir. Without an upgrade on them, they are very squishy

[Kogan Style]

Having faced Wastrels I can confirm they are a real pain once they are given upgrades and kept near to Sidir. His upgrade that boosts flips for models with upgrades and their ability to heal other models with upgrades means you have to spend a lot of AP to try to remove them or Sidir. Without an upgrade on them, they are very squishy

[Myyrä]

The problem I found myself having when using wastrels as healers was the fact that they often were too slow to be close enough to the targets I would have wanted to heal. McCabe himself is very fast and he can also give nice movement boost to his big hitters by throwing upgrades at them. Buffing the movement of a wastrel is usually not a priority.

[EntrepeNinja]

I think the point is that you can buff the movement speed of the wastrel, and every wastrel within range, and STILL get to give the buff to the handy dandy beater at the end of the chain.

[Myyrä]

I think the point is that you can buff the movement speed of the wastrel, and every wastrel within range, and STILL get to give the buff to the handy dandy beater at the end of the chain.

Sounds card intensive and only the first model gets a push from McCabe (and possibly another from the weasel). If the wastrels spend 2 ap throwing upgrades around and 1 nimble ap walking, how is their mobility boosted exactly compared to just walking 2 times?

[EntrepeNinja]

I'm not saying I agree with it, I'm just saying, I think that's supposed to be the draw.

 

ENinja

[wobbly_goggy]

Sounds card intensive and only the first model gets a push from McCabe (and possibly another from the weasel). If the wastrels spend 2 ap throwing upgrades around and 1 nimble ap walking, how is their mobility boosted exactly compared to just walking 2 times?

 

What you can do is move someone further up your lines (using McCabe's push/whatever - Sidir can be good for this to get in to position), use an Austringer to make that model push 2" and interact to drop a scheme marker. A wastrel can discard a low crow/cheat to crow on his (2) Cast-offs to be placed next to a friendly scheme marker within 12". Place! No worries about models in the way, LoS, anything!

Cast-offs is at first glance pants, but it's actually really useful. It only costs 6 of anything to cost, and as it targets a friendly model within 6", you don't have to worry too much about success. The triggers for each, with the ability to guarantee whichever you want (control hand permitting), means they're pretty nifty.

Jumping around 12" (don't forget that's further than his two walks), and getting pushed 4" when Lucas attaches an upgrade, means that Wastrels can jump around all over then place.

[MrKittens]

Having just picked up McCabe myself, a friend of mine pointed out an interesting interaction I'll have to try, and I'm wondering if anyone's given this a whirl:  Pale Rider and the Glowing Saber.  The Rider's pseudo-Crit Strike caps out at 2, but the Saber's doesn't... and it will just keep eating all the Rams its given.  Starting turn 3, when the bulk of melee often tends to start happening, the Rider is swinging for Ml 6, 4/6/7.  It only goes up from there. 

 

Did anyone catch this before now, or is my friend the first one?  I was really surprised when I heard it.

[Dirial]

Wasn't this discussed in this very thread? I have definitely seen it discussed at large before.

 

It's a good combo, that much is clear, but once an opponent has seen it, he will always expect it. The rider is a primary target in the first turns, and playing this combo only amplifies that.

[MrKittens]

Ah, apologies!  How very embarrassing, I must have missed that.  Never mind, and carry on!

 

Though I still want to try that one.

[EntrepeNinja]

Yup, used it last friday. It was awesome. I've heard good things about putting it on a Brutal Effigy (It gives a rad melee to a model that is tough and usually is terrible at combat). 

[Mastershake]

Having just picked up McCabe myself, a friend of mine pointed out an interesting interaction I'll have to try, and I'm wondering if anyone's given this a whirl:  Pale Rider and the Glowing Saber.  The Rider's pseudo-Crit Strike caps out at 2, but the Saber's doesn't... and it will just keep eating all the Rams its given.  Starting turn 3, when the bulk of melee often tends to start happening, the Rider is swinging for Ml 6, 4/6/7.  It only goes up from there. 

 

Did anyone catch this before now, or is my friend the first one?  I was really surprised when I heard it.

 

You're friend isn't first.  As soon as I saw Glowing Sabre, I looked around at anything that got extra rams. 

 

It takes a turn to get it going (Turn 2 he's effectively weak 3 even without flipping a ram).  That being said I can't help but sigh a little when engaging isn't wise and I pop off some shots from his gun and realize how awful his native attacks are for his cost.  I'm still a little baffled the pale rider made it through playtesting at 12pts, but if you actually want him to feel worth it, the McCabe is the way to do it.  Elixir of Life giving him Regen 2 is also pretty solid. 

 

Warden's have been universally solid with McCabe as well since they also have a way to get their built in rams and turns 1 and 2 do the same damage as the Pale Rider as long as the target has already activated.  Wardens can also get Reactivate from the badge of speed. 

 

2 Wardens or 1 Pale Rider is a tough choice with McCabe.  I like the rider's speed and his survivability gets great late game, but the warden just starts with Armor 1 and a trigger that brings him up to Armor 3.  Turn 3 onwards is really where the pale rider starts to pull ahead of the warden, but that leaves both of them pretty similar on the bigger combat turns and the turns where the Warden or rider is clearly better is either before the major fighting starts or after a lot of the fighting has cooled down.  6 of one or a half dozen of the other, but at the end of the day there's nothing quite like being able to say "Triggering Critical Strike with 5 Rams" and the audible sigh from the other person.