May Feng 2015 is over - Feedback welcome!

[Psientologist]

Triple post... meh.

 

 

For me photos from the event check my twitter and #MAYFENG

 

I will also end up doing a blog as well as chatting about it on SMP Radio too.

 

Thank you and goodnight!

[Kogan Style]

I really enjoyed the event despite my losses to Lilith, great games with some really good opponents, some old, some new! 

The tables were nice and varied, making each game different. There was also enough space to lay everything out off the playing surface, which I think improves the experience (no one really wants to put their fate decks and soulstones on top of buildings).

 

Having people hand out water was a great idea! Meant that despite the heat, players didn't have to wander off to get drinks and could just concentrate on the game. 

 

Timing I felt was good, although my games went to turns 4, 4, 3, 5 respectively I felt I wasn't rushed in any of them or had a slow player in any of them. The game that only went to turn 3 was probably the most tactically challenging of all of them! I'm one for bringing a stopwatch to games so I keep track of time remaining, but this event was run so smoothly I didn't need to use it, so that is a good indicator of success I think.

Improvements

 

Don't cause confusion with the table order, at first it was funny but I think for you as a TO, its one more frustrating variable to deal with when you want to run a smooth event. Personal whinge about the use of Puppet War decks for table no.s - just made it harder to read the number quickly. Yes yes I'll go get a tissue to blow my crybaby nose

Ensure that all teams are represented - The Chosen ones (David Brown, Greg and myself) weren't included on the list it seems, no biggie but maybe make the process of registering a team clearer to ensure no confusion.

Give out more raffle tickets Perhaps for things in game like first Red/Black Joker on Initiative/Damage etc.. (stolen from Gertfaux) ended up with only one
 

Also, since I was robbed of a glorious round of applause (and they were very pleasing to hear), and despite the matter was resolved very quickly (by the time I got back to the Hotel!)  I still feel the need for Vengeance and so I am invoking a Blood feud with Ben Sime, and will consider my honour satisfied only when we clash on the malifaux table or when I cut off your hands so I can make a polite round of applause for myself whenever I need a pick-me up. 

 

Great event, easily one of my Favorites of the year!

 

[jonahmaul]

I had a really enjoyable time even though I was exhausted by the end of it (but that's just tournaments for you!).  I think the timings were pretty solid though sometimes I got caught a bit by surprise so maybe some more regular announcements (it wasn't always easy to hear them either because it was very loud in the hall).  Overall though I think it was a very well run event and had excellent prize support for what seemed to be relatively small in terms of numbers.

 

The main improvement I think I would make is to have more room around the tables.  I appreciate that with the numbers and the amount of space being limited this could be difficult (not sure what the other room in there is like and whether that is an option?) but there was very little room for cards/counters/dead models/drinks etc.

 

Also agree that more raffle tickets could be handed out.  One of our lot didn't get any in the end (he asked about whether he should have got one for the first game which we all got but I think in the confusion he was told it wasn't the case he should have one).  Things like Adam/Kogan has mentioned about RJ/BJ initiative flips, first person to flip both Jokers for something.  First pairing to flip both in the same duel.  I'm sure there's ideas that don't involve the Jokers too!

 

Definitely nothing that would put me off attending again though and I think we'll most likely make September's Curse (even full price for a hotel only works out about £20 each with three in each room).

 

And some specific replies:

As discussed with Dom via the Twee tarz, if I can car pool like "Scum" did, then I will do and I aim to in the future.

Trains because of no direct line are too expensive for a hobo like me.

 

Was great to meet you all, I was genuinely upset you all had gone before I got to sit with you at dinner. Hopefully we'll get more of a chance next time.

 

We can even chat other "nerd" stuff like wrestling!

 

Yeah it is crazy that trains cost so much and it ends up cheaper to drive!  It's because they pay idiots like NeilH too much to be engineers!

 

We'd been out all afternoon by time we made the meal so were pretty knackered!  We'll try to make more of an effort to socialise with people outside our group next time (good work Mike for putting yourself amongst a table full of people who knew each other but not you!).

 

Wrestling is for the cool kids ... honest ....

[Oshova]

Overall a great event.

 

I will second Kogan Style on the point about table numbers (well kind of). I liked the idea of using the cards for tables, but it obviously confused the TOs, and I know a lot of players were confused. Also, they didn't seem to go around the room in a sensible order. I will come out fighting for the use of Puppet Wars cards though. They are my favourite deck of cards, and people who whine about them need to get a life! Or glasses! =p (I usually bring a back up deck in case someone really doesn't want to play against that deck, but I didn't have space for some reason this weekend)

 

And now... I'm surprised no-one has talked about the Henchman lead game yet. Personally, I liked the idea of it as a quick game to make more division at a large event. And tbh, with my general hate of Henchman lead games being competitive I will say that I would never want them to be equal to master lead games. However, the general consensus in the drive home seemed to be that it was better to not win your Henchman game, it was probably best to draw it, or have a marginal loss. I mean, Greg won with 4 wins (because he is awesome), but then 2nd and 3rd both lost their first game, allowing them to submarine with less risk than usual. The scoring system did allow for more seperation at the top (7 players on 3 wins, but only 2 of them winning all 3 master games), but I don't know what to think of a system that allows players to tactically play not to win.

 

I will repeat that I liked the use of a Henchman game. It was a great way to keep the day shorter and still get in 4 games (something I can get on board with having driven 4 hours to get there, and 3 and a half to get home). I can't think of a scoring system that would have worked better with those 4 games, and this was the first use (that I know of) where the games were split in that way. So I would be amazed if it was perfect first time. (You're good Ben, but you're not THAT good =p).

 

I think it definitely warrants further discussion.

 

But yeah. Overall, a great event Ben. Keep up the good work =]

[Psientologist]

The tables were nice and varied, making each game different. There was also enough space to lay everything out off the playing surface, which I think improves the experience (no one really wants to put their fate decks and soulstones on top of buildings).

 

 

The main improvement I think I would make is to have more room around the tables.  I appreciate that with the numbers and the amount of space being limited this could be difficult (not sure what the other room in there is like and whether that is an option?) but there was very little room for cards/counters/dead models/drinks etc.

 

 

Haha, funny that there are opposite views but I'm glad that I'm not the only one who wonders about it or cares.

 

Quickly answering Jonah's query about the other room. That is a Snooker Room which a club has permanent access too, they were even there Saturday night when we were setting up but I guess you didn't hear the occasional tap of snooker balls.

 

If we did have access to it our events could be 50+ I reckon. So it's a shame.

 

From my own personal experience I would say the space we gave at MayFeng was "average".

I have been to events, I guess I won't name them because some TOs get easily upset, where there may've been that 6" for counters but 0 space between you and the table behind which is kind of crazy.

 

The tables are typically 6*4 bits of wood cut down the centre. I'd love for them to be 8*4 but that isn't what the club has and currently it's illogical of me to spend money to do that considering what is available and the space to store the boards.

 

I do agree more space is great. It is a reason the tables that were nearest the window ended up changing to have one less so people could walk about and is the main reason I'm going to go for 36  over 40 for SC15.

 

However, appreciate the feedback. Thought I'd keep this bit separate as the two opposite points, well... they were funny.

[Kogan Style]

I think it depends on the tables you played on. I played 2 games against the windows and both my other games were next to the 'walkway' in the centre, so I always felt I had room.

[Psientologist]

 

Having people hand out water was a great idea! Meant that despite the heat, players didn't have to wander off to get drinks and could just concentrate on the game. 

 

Timing I felt was good, although my games went to turns 4, 4, 3, 5 respectively I felt I wasn't rushed in any of them or had a slow player in any of them. The game that only went to turn 3 was probably the most tactically challenging of all of them! I'm one for bringing a stopwatch to games so I keep track of time remaining, but this event was run so smoothly I didn't need to use it, so that is a good indicator of success I think.

Improvements

 

Don't cause confusion with the table order, at first it was funny but I think for you as a TO, its one more frustrating variable to deal with when you want to run a smooth event. Personal whinge about the use of Puppet War decks for table no.s - just made it harder to read the number quickly. Yes yes I'll go get a tissue to blow my crybaby nose

Ensure that all teams are represented - The Chosen ones (David Brown, Greg and myself) weren't included on the list it seems, no biggie but maybe make the process of registering a team clearer to ensure no confusion.

Give out more raffle tickets Perhaps for things in game like first Red/Black Joker on Initiative/Damage etc.. (stolen from Gertfaux) ended up with only one

 

Also, since I was robbed of a glorious round of applause (and they were very pleasing to hear), and despite the matter was resolved very quickly (by the time I got back to the Hotel!)  I still feel the need for Vengeance and so I am invoking a Blood feud with Ben Sime, and will consider my honour satisfied only when we clash on the malifaux table or when I cut off your hands so I can make a polite round of applause for myself whenever I need a pick-me up. 

 

Great event, easily one of my Favorites of the year!

 

 

The handing out of water is something I came up with for SC14 and stems back from playing things like MtG tournaments.

Tournaments can be tiring, and losing concentration due to a headache means that you'll feel bad and then worse.

 

It does save time, it's the same reason for sweeties in the packs to give people a little sugar so they can last until lunch without having to leave during a game or disappear between rounds.

 

I did make a joke of the table numbers but it was silly and I will make sure to have proper numbers for next year.

Personally I also don't like announcing table 1 and it being second from bottom (no disrespect to players on it).

 

Apologies about the teams. It's also been a little add on for me rather than a main event but I appreciate there is still a chance to win something so I semi-denied it to you. I promise that's not on purpose. I'm sure it looks like I have a grudge against you Adam...

 

Blood Fued? Well I'll be more than happy to take you off at a future event when that day comes    

 

Raffle tickets I will get back to in a minute. 

 

I had a really enjoyable time even though I was exhausted by the end of it (but that's just tournaments for you!).  I think the timings were pretty solid though sometimes I got caught a bit by surprise so maybe some more regular announcements (it wasn't always easy to hear them either because it was very loud in the hall).  Overall though I think it was a very well run event and had excellent prize support for what seemed to be relatively small in terms of numbers.

 

Also agree that more raffle tickets could be handed out.  One of our lot didn't get any in the end (he asked about whether he should have got one for the first game which we all got but I think in the confusion he was told it wasn't the case he should have one).  Things like Adam/Kogan has mentioned about RJ/BJ initiative flips, first person to flip both Jokers for something.  First pairing to flip both in the same duel.  I'm sure there's ideas that don't involve the Jokers too!

 

Definitely nothing that would put me off attending again though and I think we'll most likely make September's Curse (even full price for a hotel only works out about £20 each with three in each room).

 

 

Raffle tickets.

Well giving out spot prizes for funny things during the rounds.

 

Gertfaux did not come up with this. Nor did the GT the first I know of, was "Under the Influence" Aaron Bailey's first event prior to last year's September's Curse and we carried it on.

I know Mike Marshall liked it (he attended SC14) and used it himself.

 

So however I will claim that we as a group are the inventors/innovators I will also claim that now, I'm not sure I like it.

 

It is cool, it is funny, but, it interferes in games.

People will slow down to hear, play different, stop to shout they've done it (even after the prize has gone) and basically it can take valuable playing time away.

 

Everyone has mentioned round times. It was the precise reason that my score sheet had that box, it didn't effect scores but it was for me to see if the rounds were long enough and to check who the slow players may be.

Before someone goes mental, not as an accusation thing... well yet, if the same people who consistently (not just 1/4 games) can't ever get passed turn 3 at an event 6 months away then they need an eye on.

And again, not for a telling off, but a polite poke or even a chat.

 

I'm sure Jan would not mind me saying that he can be a slow player, and we realised this from our first events and aimed to improve on it and now, I'm pretty certain his average turn gotten to is over 4 which is perfectly fine.

 

I apologise about the raffle tickets. I guess I will need a to be louder and make a bigger fuss the first time again.

From my perspective while entering data it was a chance for whoever was not to chat to the pair of players and also stall a little so that by the next pair I had double checked myself.

 

I think however the skewed raffle did work. Garry did exactly what I hoped for and it was hilarious.

 

Overall a great event.

 

I will second Kogan Style on the point about table numbers (well kind of). I liked the idea of using the cards for tables, but it obviously confused the TOs, and I know a lot of players were confused. Also, they didn't seem to go around the room in a sensible order. I will come out fighting for the use of Puppet Wars cards though. They are my favourite deck of cards, and people who whine about them need to get a life! Or glasses! =p (I usually bring a back up deck in case someone really doesn't want to play against that deck, but I didn't have space for some reason this weekend)

 

And now... I'm surprised no-one has talked about the Henchman lead game yet. Personally, I liked the idea of it as a quick game to make more division at a large event. And tbh, with my general hate of Henchman lead games being competitive I will say that I would never want them to be equal to master lead games. However, the general consensus in the drive home seemed to be that it was better to not win your Henchman game, it was probably best to draw it, or have a marginal loss. I mean, Greg won with 4 wins (because he is awesome), but then 2nd and 3rd both lost their first game, allowing them to submarine with less risk than usual. The scoring system did allow for more seperation at the top (7 players on 3 wins, but only 2 of them winning all 3 master games), but I don't know what to think of a system that allows players to tactically play not to win.

 

I will repeat that I liked the use of a Henchman game. It was a great way to keep the day shorter and still get in 4 games (something I can get on board with having driven 4 hours to get there, and 3 and a half to get home). I can't think of a scoring system that would have worked better with those 4 games, and this was the first use (that I know of) where the games were split in that way. So I would be amazed if it was perfect first time. (You're good Ben, but you're not THAT good =p).

 

I think it definitely warrants further discussion.

 

But yeah. Overall, a great event Ben. Keep up the good work =]

 

The puppet deck is terrible and my eyesight is fine. 

 

This table number thing will change, one of the first things I will purchase with SC15 funds will be some nice token type things. As with tokens it also means we can flip the numbers from one way around to the other very quickly and stop people staying on one table all day (mostly).

 

THE EXPERIMENT

 

It was very interesting and has seemed to go down OK.

The tactical loss is definitely a worry but you need to win 4 games to get first place so I think (hope) it's too much of a risk for most.

 

As a note I checked where Mark would've come, dropping from top table to 6th I believe he would have gotten 4th with a normal scoring system.

 

To me that means it wasn't so bad because he didn't get screwed out of a trophy but also I will admit VP diff could've meant that he had if Dan Tetely's was lower.

 

Appreciate that also he'd get less rankings points but, well I think that is going too far about worrying there and also Mark needs a win for the difference anyway (such a pro!). 

 

Thank you for the feedback everyone, exactly what I wanted to hear.

[Dante83]

but then 2nd and 3rd both lost their first game, allowing them to submarine with less risk than usual.

Just for the sake of clarity (I'm pretty sure it's relevant to no one but me), I came 3rd and actually won my henchman game, admittedly it was only by 1VP!!

The reason I finished on the same points as Luke (who did lose his henchman game) in 2nd is that one of my master games ended as a draw and so I got 3points in round 1, 5points in round 2, 2 points in round 3 and 5 points in round 4.

[Psientologist]

Luke got 0,5,5,5

Dan(Dave) got 3,5,2,5

 

Interesting I think.

 

Possibly means the scoring does need looking at as 3 wins and a draw is better than 3 and a loss.

 

In the end, like most events, VP diff was still a huge results changer.

[Dumb Luck]

Is that offer to fight Ben Sime still open?

 

I think every event should follow May Feng's example and have a James Reeves' next to my table for every game.

[Psientologist]

I'll put a word in with Sir Reeves for you.

[Dante83]

The thing is the 3 master wins should be worth more than 2 master wins and a henchman win.

We all knew that going in this would be the case and I certainly have no complaints. I went into the tournament hoping to finish at least 2-2 and came out third!!!!!

[Clousseau]

Where would "The Chosen Ones" have finished (can't remember the scoring)?

 

For table numbers you don't need to spend a lot of money - something similar to my painted CDs for example.

 

Putting a raffle ticket in the goodie box would have solved that problem, and I agree that giving out tickets during games isn't a good idea, but more tickets is also good. Like the scewed raffle, even though I didn't win anything

 

If you'd like a copy of my scoring spreadsheet, just ask.

 

Don't overstretch the numbers - the venue looked good for 32 players, but might be a squeeze above that. Noise might become more of an issue - I certainly struggled at times (and my hearing is one thing that still works!).

[Psientologist]

Well 36 just fills the odd gap there was.

If you'd like to email your spreadsheet that'd be appreciated.

No raffle ticket in the takeaway box was really down to the fact I had sorted them before we got our prize support but I do totally agree and should've sorted it on the Saturday.

[Psientologist]

I'll look to show the team rankings in the future, same as the "what if?" of 3/1/0 scoring for each round.

[jonahmaul]

Personally I thought the table numbers were good and was a good idea to use cards.  Just needed to get the announcements correct!

 

As for more raffle tickets I don't think it would be too hard to have a separate sheet and just have people tick off anything they happen to do during a game that would warrant a ticket (may just need some way of their opponent verifying it).

[Psientologist]

 

This has the teams with their placings and their average placing alongside it.

Looks as though I didn't have to even look at VP diff.

 

Also I HONESTLY DON'T HATE ADAM!

 

Huge apologies to Adam, Clousseau and Greg as the team they made here was not accounted for and would've won.

 

Double apologies to Adam as my blunders at the end cost him twice, I feel pretty awful about that and I am very sorry.

[Psientologist]

 

HERE IS THE ALTERNATE "WHAT IF?" STANDINGS.

 

As far as "what if"'s go this is more pointless than most as there would be a possibility that some match ups would've changed.

 

I also have noticed my previous comment about Mark was wrong.

 

These standings are if the tournament used the standard 3/1/0 system for TP throughout the event.

 

Blue lines are non-movers.

Red is people who would've gone down so arguably benefited the most from the experimental system.

The Green, that is people who would've gone up so were "screwed" by the system.

[Clousseau]

 

 

 

This has the teams with their placings and their average placing alongside it.

Looks as though I didn't have to even look at VP diff.

 

Also I HONESTLY DON'T HATE ADAM!

 

Huge apologies to Adam, Clousseau and Greg as the team they made here was not accounted for and would've won.

 

Double apologies to Adam as my blunders at the end cost him twice, I feel pretty awful about that and I am very sorry.

 

Can someone going to Deliverance collect our trophies?

 

Seriously, great that our great performance has been recognised

[shakes1066]

I thought the scoring system was an excellent idea, not just because I came second instead of third. In round 1 I had blu tac , always a truly hard game. As a random draw rather than Swiss it is the most varied of all the draws. It was a close game so on VP diff I was playing someone who had either also had a narrow loss or maybe a draw in round one so hardly the easy route. Then by round three you getting into true Swiss. By round 4 I was on table 2, never going win as someone on table 1 was going away with 4 wins but playing the 3rd or 4th best result after 3 rounds.

Now you might ask why I like this scoring system or even why I think it is fairer system? Well it all starts at the 2014 GT, I had Ant round 1, well that's fair enough it's a random draw and you have to beat whoever is in front of you but this is not where it ended. In the following events this year I've had Ben Crowe KOTS twice in round 1, Blu Tac once and Greg the chosen one once.

I think you could even tier the system further, so round 2 would be 4vp, then 5vp from round three on. This would reward players for beating players closer to their ability as they climbed or fell on the Swiss system as the day progressed.

Just my thoughts.

Luke.

[bertmac]

I would have liked to get at least one raffle ticket as I basically was hanging around waiting for my mates to see if they'd won something!

I think the points were right for wins in henchman compared to master games however maybe not including the points when deciding pairings as i ended up playing against players who all ended up in the top half pretty much even though my win wasn't worth as much as a win in the main event.

[Psientologist]

Well your win wasn't worth as much as the "main" wins so you only played people who won where you did for the most part.

If you won then lost you would have had 3TP

A player who drew twice would have 3TP

However a player who lost then won in the "main" would have 5TP so you would not have been paired up for round 3.