(Edited to include additional sources of the Defensive Condition that others have pointed out.)
I was studying Shenlong's crew and realized there is some inconsistency when it comes to the duration of the Defensive Condition:
The Defensive Condition is defined in the rulebook as "Defensive +1: This model gains to all Df duels."
It does not have a specified duration, so it would fall under the default "removed at the end of the Turn" rule.
Some effects apply the Defensive Condition without specifying a duration either, so it would again default back to "removed at the end of the Turn."
These effects include (restricting my list to Ten Thunders cards):
- The "Slow Water Eternal Voice" ability granted by the Low River Style upgrade, as mentioned in the original post, - the Monk of Low River's "Rapid Timeless Voice" ability, - Shenlong's "(1) Burn Like Fire" attack action. (Note that the duration of the target's Defensive Condition would not matter, since mechanically it is being applied to Shenlong by the "Burn Like Fire" action, not by whatever source had previously applied Defensive to the target.)
- the Wastrel's "Swagger" ability.
BUT most other sources that I can find that applies the Defensive condition does so with the specified duration of "until the model's next Activation."
This includes (again, restricting my list to Ten Thunders):
- The "(#) Defensive Stance" general tactical action, - Shenlong's "(0) Mastery" tactical action, - the Peasant's "(1) Provide for the Temple" tactical action, - the Ten Thunders Brother's "Df (Tomes) Bend As The Willow" trigger, - the "To Positions!" ability granted by the "Blot the Sky" Upgrade,
In addition, there is the Guardian's "(0) Protect" action, which gives a target model the Defensive +2 Condition "until the start if this model's next Activation, or until this model is removed from play." (Note that the "next activation" here is the Guardian's next activation, not that of the model receiving the Defensive Condition as with other effects.)
So we have a stacking condition that defaults to the "end of turn" duration, and
1) Some effects apply it without specifying a different duration 2) Some effects apply it with a specified duration different from the default duration.
Is this intended?
If so, since stacking conditions are treated as a single condition, what happens when a model receives the Defensive Condition from both categories of effects? What duration applies?
The duration of the most recent condition applied to the stack? (This could result in the condition applying indefinitely.)
The next one to occur?
Or do we "split" the stack for purposes of duration even though there is nothing in the rules to support "splitting" a stacked condition this way?
Question
Allandrel
(Edited to include additional sources of the Defensive Condition that others have pointed out.)
I was studying Shenlong's crew and realized there is some inconsistency when it comes to the duration of the Defensive Condition:
The Defensive Condition is defined in the rulebook as "Defensive +1: This model gains to all Df duels."
It does not have a specified duration, so it would fall under the default "removed at the end of the Turn" rule.
Some effects apply the Defensive Condition without specifying a duration either, so it would again default back to "removed at the end of the Turn."
These effects include (restricting my list to Ten Thunders cards):
- The "Slow Water Eternal Voice" ability granted by the Low River Style upgrade, as mentioned in the original post,
- the Monk of Low River's "Rapid Timeless Voice" ability,
- Shenlong's "(1) Burn Like Fire" attack action. (Note that the duration of the target's Defensive Condition would not matter, since mechanically it is being applied to Shenlong by the "Burn Like Fire" action, not by whatever source had previously applied Defensive to the target.)
- the Wastrel's "Swagger" ability.
BUT most other sources that I can find that applies the Defensive condition does so with the specified duration of "until the model's next Activation."
This includes (again, restricting my list to Ten Thunders):
- The "(#) Defensive Stance" general tactical action,
- Shenlong's "(0) Mastery" tactical action,
- the Peasant's "(1) Provide for the Temple" tactical action,
- the Ten Thunders Brother's "Df (Tomes) Bend As The Willow" trigger,
- the "To Positions!" ability granted by the "Blot the Sky" Upgrade,
In addition, there is the Guardian's "(0) Protect" action, which gives a target model the Defensive +2 Condition "until the start if this model's next Activation, or until this model is removed from play." (Note that the "next activation" here is the Guardian's next activation, not that of the model receiving the Defensive Condition as with other effects.)
So we have a stacking condition that defaults to the "end of turn" duration, and
1) Some effects apply it without specifying a different duration
2) Some effects apply it with a specified duration different from the default duration.
Is this intended?
If so, since stacking conditions are treated as a single condition, what happens when a model receives the Defensive Condition from both categories of effects? What duration applies?
The duration of the most recent condition applied to the stack? (This could result in the condition applying indefinitely.)
The next one to occur?
Or do we "split" the stack for purposes of duration even though there is nothing in the rules to support "splitting" a stacked condition this way?
This definitely needs a ruling or errata.
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