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"does not list a model by name."


rythos42

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I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this, but it seems like a huuuuuuuge cuddle (cuddle?) for what I tend to use the model for.

 

Malifaux Child Just Like You says in the errata'd version "Take one of this Crew's Leader's Ca Actions with an AP cost of 1 that does not list a model by name." Where would the model be listed by name?

 

For example, I'm looking at Tara's upgrades that say "Tara gains the following Tactical Action: (1) Faces in the Void..." Does that "list Tara by name"? But if I were looking at Ramos card, his Summon the Swarm ability doesn't say any name by it?

 

 

Not looking forward to the answer to this. :(

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Take one of this Crew's Leader's Ca Actions with an AP cost of 1 that does not list a model by name.  

Think they are both good to go with the child since the upgrade specifies that Tara gains the action, the action doesn't specify a model name
 

 
 
The name restriction is in the Ca action itself i.e. summoning spells 
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As you need to name it. I'd say yes.

 

 

Agreed.

 

more voice in agreedment with that. I would argue that "Name a x" is also listing a model by name.

 

The only annoying part IMO is that the "listing a model by name" restriction hurts Lucius Command because it has non-austringer. 

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Maybe, Praetor, but we are talking only a 3 point Totem. So overall, having a limitation like that isn't that big a deal to me. I rarely take the child though (i.e. never), as most people I play (neverborn) tend to do better with their personal totems (or my beloved Primordial Magic generic totem).

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Maybe, Praetor, but we are talking only a 3 point Totem. So overall, having a limitation like that isn't that big a deal to me. I rarely take the child though (i.e. never), as most people I play (neverborn) tend to do better with their personal totems (or my beloved Primordial Magic generic totem).

 

Not a big deal. I don't play Lucius anyway.. :) An observation I made. 

 

And true,  personal totems work often better,  but he is an option and a pretty good option for casters. 

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Not a big deal. I don't play Lucius anyway.. :) An observation I made. 

 

And true,  personal totems work often better,  but he is an option and a pretty good option for casters. 

No, I agree with you on that. He can free up Nicodem nicely from what I've read/head to hand out a fast every turn and save an AP for Nico. :D

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Is this (regarding Ramos summoning) the general consencus? cause I would never have interpedet it this way.... As I understand the rule it would be that the child can't perform a action that says "Ramos gains the following action..." or wordings like that. Also (at work so I cant check exact wording) I belive there are actions whose descriptions start with... "[insert name here] may...", I thougt these actions were the intended ones

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Is this (regarding Ramos summoning) the general consencus? cause I would never have interpedet it this way.... As I understand the rule it would be that the child can't perform a action that says "Ramos gains the following action..." or wordings like that. Also (at work so I cant check exact wording) I belive there are actions whose descriptions start with... "[insert name here] may...", I thougt these actions were the intended ones

 

Yes, that's the consensus at the moment. In Ramos case, it's really obvious (not as obvious for Nicodem): Arachnids are explicitly named. Also, it doesn't matter much if this were intended targets for this wording. I'm not sure Protected by Metal would be intended either (for Doppelgänger purpose, for example), but the wording makes clear that it cannot be copied.

 

So, intended or not, Ramos' summon cannot be copied by the Malifaux Child: It names a model.

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Is this (regarding Ramos summoning) the general consencus? cause I would never have interpedet it this way.... As I understand the rule it would be that the child can't perform a action that says "Ramos gains the following action..." or wordings like that. Also (at work so I cant check exact wording) I belive there are actions whose descriptions start with... "[insert name here] may...", I thougt these actions were the intended ones

 

It really doesn't work like this.

"Ramos gains the following action" is not the text of the action. Its the text of the upgrade telling us that it is giving an action to Ramos, as if it were written on his card.  

The Text after that is the Action text and its their that we need too look for Named models.

So Malifaux child could use the Action overdrive from one of Ramos' upgrades as the actual action doesn't name a model, but Summon the swarm does name a model

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It really doesn't work like this.

"Ramos gains the following action" is not the text of the action. Its the text of the upgrade telling us that it is giving an action to Ramos, as if it were written on his card.  

The Text after that is the Action text and its their that we need too look for Named models.

So Malifaux child could use the Action overdrive from one of Ramos' upgrades as the actual action doesn't name a model, but Summon the swarm does name a model

Exactly this.

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I do not use the Malifaux Child, but it was always my understanding that the "named-model restriction" meant the action cannot use the "name" of the models whose card it is on, so the mention of "Steam Arachnids" does not invalidate its use, as it is an action on Ramos' card, and the action does not mention "Ramos."

 

If this is not correct, than I feel many / most have been doing it "wrong" as I have seen countless batreps and posts with people using the Malifaux Child to increase spider spam.

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Yes they are doing it wrong or the batreps came from before the change to the Child.

 

Semantically i am inclined to agree with  you.  Since it says, "a model by name", it should restrict any ability with a model's name, whereas if it stated "the model by name" one could argue that the restriction is only referencing the master model.

 

Perhaps the batreps and the posts I am recalling were from the beta and the wording was different.

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What's the story with triggers that list a model by name, are they considered to be part of the action text, thus preventing replication?

For example can a Doppelganger copy Fence Post from Mr. Graves, or does the mention of Mr. Tannen in the trigger prohibit it?

No official classification on this, as far as I know. Informally, I'd be happy for the Doppelganger to copy the Action but be unable to trigger. In a tournament setting, probably safer to go with no copying.

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No official classification on this, as far as I know. Informally, I'd be happy for the Doppelganger to copy the Action but be unable to trigger. In a tournament setting, probably safer to go with no copying.

Since the Doppleganger's version of this ability explicitly says that Triggers may not be declared from mimic-ed actions, I'd agree with Kadeton on this -- I'd be happy with Doppleganger copying, but it's a legitimate question whether the Trigger-text is part of the Action text, and so whether naming a model in the Trigger disqualifies the action, even if the Trigger is not eligible for copying. Since I have had my Dopple mimic my Graves in this way, I'm suddenly wondering whether I might have cheated....

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No official classification on this, as far as I know. Informally, I'd be happy for the Doppelganger to copy the Action but be unable to trigger. In a tournament setting, probably safer to go with no copying.

 

Same for conditions dealt by the action (e.g. Metal Gamin). Until we have an official answer on these two cases, it's safer to assume that you cannot copy these.

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