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where is the breach at?


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I concur with omenbringer. However, if I were to wager a *guess*, I'd say the Guild's most-used Breach (be it the main one or otherwise, likely the main one though) would be in Mississippi, and here is why I think that:

 

United_States_1804-03-1804-10.png

 

Take a look at the above map. This is Earthside America (our timeline, which *should* coincide with the alternate until the Breach opens, magic waning or no) 1804. About a year ago I would have wagered a guess at California but that is rendered unlikely and/or impossible by this map. I always thought that the Breach overlooked a cliff over a body of water. This would put us at either the Indiana Territory, Kentucky, Tennessee, or the Mississippi Territory. These are the four biggest considerations for where the Breach *could* be, especially considering westward expansion of the US.

 

Here's where I narrow that down. Oxford, Mississippi, was founded in 1837, true, but the Breach closed in 1814, and reopened in 1904 (or was it 1914? either way, after Oxford was established). Sure, Oxfordian Mages could come from Oxford to the Breach via another different location, but being that the names are *so* specific, I have come to the conclusion that the Breach first opened in Mississippi, possibly even Oxford or a bordering city, closed, Oxford was established, and then the Breach reopened sometime after.

 

Also, my reasoning for it being in America at all is that the Guild, the initial and continuing colonizers of Malifaux, are wearing clothing which was much more utilitarian in an untamed wilderness. I don't have the TtB book but I'd bet you that any images of Earthsiders outside the main Breach, especially Guild officers, are still wearing such things, meaning they are still in untamed wilds, like America was in those days. Plus, Mississippi Territory was still pretty wild back then, in terms of woodlands and such. As a costume designer, it is my duty to look at things like this and consider such possibilities.

 

Just my twopence. I like being semi-helpful at the least :D

 

~Lil Kalki

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The original metal guild guards have a rather fancy uniform, not very utilitarian. Anyway I would think clothing anyone would adopt different clothing once through the breach if needed and that any art of earthside models of the same type would look the same just to enable us to recognize them.

 

I imagined Oxfordian Mages coming from Oxford University in Britain, but perhaps it says were they come from in the Crossroads book?

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So going by a list of largest cities in the US (assuming that the breach is located there) we come up with these possibilities

 

New York, NY

Boston, Mass.

Philadelphia, Penn.

Charleston, S.C.

Baltimore, Md

Northern Liberties, Penn.

Salem, Mass

Newport, R.I.

Providence, R.I.

Marblehead, Mass.

Southwark, Penn.

 

If we narrow those down to what was called a city at the time the only ones that qualify are Boston, New York and Charleston. 

 

However I like to think that the breach was opened in Salem due to the history of that town with witchcraft and such.

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I've kind of edited my theory based on help from the wonderful people at AWP. I'm thinking it was somewhere in Georgia that the Breach opened. Based on the fact that the area that is now Oxford, MS was Native American territory until about 1802, it couldn't likely be Oxford unless that area was, in fact, taken by the indigenous people of the area. Still thinking  with Oxford 1901 in mind, it had to be a place relatively close to there, and - because I am *certain* that the mages who opened the Breach knew better than to open the Breach in a highly-populated area - not a major place like Atlanta or Savannah, if those cities were even there at the time. This is also why places like New York City, Washington D.C., Boston, or even anywhere in New Jersey (T^T - lol, just kidding), were not suitable locations for the emergence of the Breach, nor were nearby cities (looking to Salem here for an example).

 

I'm fine saying it is a nondescript town in GA that the Breach was opened in. I think the name of the town (or the present analogue) is secondary to that idea. :)

 

~Lil Kalki

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I don't think it's reasonable to look to existing cities at the time to search for the original breach; unless I'm terribly mistaken the fluff said a city grew up around the gathering of mages trying to find a solution to the problem of magic disappearing. This would likely NOT be at an already large city IMHO...

I won't argue with fluff texts I haven't read yet, but a little bummed if Oxfordian mages come from Mississippi. In a world where magic is a traditional part of academia, the oldest institutions in the world would likely be the beacons of knowledge. Places like Oxford university, university of Bologna, Prague university, etc, would be far more credible sources of arcane knowledge than a newly founded university of Mississippi, which at best would be founded 750 years later than these others... Kind of takes away some of the magic from the story... :-(

I've always thought the original Breach was located in Britain or Central Europe somewhere, but that's mainly due to thosd being a logical gathering points for mages from all over the world two hundred years ago. Just getting the word out to the non-US mages would take years, let alone gathering them all across the ocean if it was indeed held in the New World. Remember that the total population of the US around 1800 was about five million. UK at the same time had about fifteen, France being just across the channel had 30 million, Germany another 20. Not to mention Southern Europe and the trade routes to the East all going through Europe. Where would most wizards be born? Where would they be educated? Probably where there existed arcane institutions already centuries old, not in the wilderness... Amongst the hundreds of millions in Old World, or amongst the five millions of the new? Simply crossing North America East to West was no mean feat around 1800, whereas Europe was the hub of international trade, and hence travel...

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I don't think it's reasonable to look to existing cities at the time to search for the original breach; unless I'm terribly mistaken the fluff said a city grew up around the gathering of mages trying to find a solution to the problem of magic disappearing. This would likely NOT be at an already large city IMHO...

I won't argue with fluff texts I haven't read yet, but a little bummed if Oxfordian mages come from Mississippi. In a world where magic is a traditional part of academia, the oldest institutions in the world would likely be the beacons of knowledge. Places like Oxford university, university of Bologna, Prague university, etc, would be far more credible sources of arcane knowledge than a newly founded university of Mississippi, which at best would be founded 750 years later than these others... Kind of takes away some of the magic from the story... :-(

I've always thought the original Breach was located in Britain or Central Europe somewhere, but that's mainly due to thosd being a logical gathering points for mages from all over the world two hundred years ago. Just getting the word out to the non-US mages would take years, let alone gathering them all across the ocean if it was indeed held in the New World. Remember that the total population of the US around 1800 was about five million. UK at the same time had about fifteen, France being just across the channel had 30 million, Germany another 20. Not to mention Southern Europe and the trade routes to the East all going through Europe. Where would most wizards be born? Where would they be educated? Probably where there existed arcane institutions already centuries old, not in the wilderness... Amongst the hundreds of millions in Old World, or amongst the five millions of the new? Simply crossing North America East to West was no mean feat around 1800, whereas Europe was the hub of international trade, and hence travel...

But America man. America.

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But America man. America.

I know, and knowing the original authors are American I fully realise they might very well have had the Mid West in mind from the beginning. I do think it wise of Wyrd not to be very specific; for the North American player base Europe is far away foreign countries; whereas to someone living next to a university a thousand years old or more the idea of a ancient world leading academic institution less than a a century old would be ludicrous.

There is a smalm window of opportunity where America would be a somewhat logical global hot spot for magic practitioners around 1800; if magic was strongly forbidden under penalty of death in all of Europe and Asia, then magic users would probably emigrate to avoid persecution. However, im the fluff I get the impression that the world is fully aware of the existence of magic prior to the opening of the breach, and that magic is an important part of the pre breach power structure, and has been for a very long time. If so, the remaining mages should be in high demand in the Old World, basically seller's market for magic services, and they would have even less reason to traverse the Atlantic en masse (some would probably be present on all great voyages searching for something to save magic, and thus there must certainly have been SOME magic users in the US frontier around 1800 as well). Also, a powerful elite which all government relies upon is likely to be a rather conservative group, where the majority would likely stay in their ivory towers rather than all foun new colleges in faraway locations with a tiny population (ie, North America anno 1800)...

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Europe/Britain is what I thought too Tmod. But regardless of the location of the breach, the western elements of Malifaux seemed to me to be part of the alternate history - as in, the breach in the Malifaux universe acts along side/replaces America as 'the new, unexplored frontier'. So the promise of a brave, new world, that America promised around the time of colonisation and which resulted in the kind of 'free, entrepreneurial towns' could well be establishing themselves in both America and outside Malifaux city at the same time in the Malifaux universe. The clothing they wear I would imagine would be largely contingent on the environment outside the city and that seems again to be quite similar in description to your typical western territory setting.

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Just started reading the fluff in TTB... There's no 1801 in the fluff. The original Breach was open from 1787 to 1797. In 1790 the US had a total combined population of less than four million. 1780 less than three. Remember that the population growth in North America was fueled by immigration, largely from Europe. This was just getting started in the late 18th century and the immigration rate exceeded the death rate. Thus, during its first few centuries, the US population grew exponentially. I guess it'd still be possible with a breach somewhere just East of New England, but the earlier thr date the less likely it is. If the original breach had opened a century later, things would've been different.

There are som indirect indications in favour of America in the fluff though. A lot of characters specifically comes from "the King's Empire", Leveticus amongst others (unless I'm mistaken). If the breach was located in Britain I think it would occasion more mention if someone came from OUTSIDE "the King's Empire", and the only one I can remember that isn't from the Three Kingdoms or the British Empire that gets his place of origins specifically explained is Joss. Oh, and Sidir Alchibal from Egypt...

On the other hand, Lucas McGabe seems fairly obviously English in Storm of Shadows without being called out as such, so it might have been a shift at some point.

Bottom line I guess is that historically it makes less sense to have the Breach in the New World, and commercially it makes little sense to place it in the old world. The obvious solution is to be ambiguous, and never sort this out beyond any doubt. Thus we can enjoy these discussions without anyone feeling on the loosing side...

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Just a further point...

In 1787, the colonies of US had gained independence just four years prior. Britain had withdrawn from the revolutionary war, largely because all the great powers in the world (Netherlands, Spain, and first and foremost France) all declared war in support of the Americans i 1778-1779, and prevented Britain from ever deploying more than about 50.000 troops in North America. In addition, the French army supplied about 20% of the total American forces, and this includes militias and irregulars. They all ganged up on the British because they all gained from a British embarrassment, and the British backed down because North America had relatively low value to the Empire at the time. With a breach to another world opening somewhere in America just four years later, there's no way this anti-English alliance would've held, and there would have been 200.000 British soldiers there in the time it takes to cross the Atlantic. And just as many Spanish, French and Dutch. That's not the environment where you establish universities...

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I assumed after the first M2E book released and it mentioned that Hannah came from the university in Oxford, MS that it was a pretty safe assumption that the Oxfordian mages came from the same area.

Which, honestly, is pretty nice since far too many settings focus on magical studies coming from the Old World.

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Wow do we need more information on Earth-side. So much stuff happened between the late 18th Century and the early 20th in our timeline. The industrial revolution, the taming of North America, the tensions that would lead to WWI in just a few years. Of course, in the Malifaux timeline, we have a pre-revolution resurgence of magic, the import of soul stones, the eruption of the Guild, the Breach closing, the Black Powder wars...I'm really itching to see what Earth-side looks like, because I'm 100% certain it doesn't look like our Earth in 1904.

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I assumed after the first M2E book released and it mentioned that Hannah came from the university in Oxford, MS that it was a pretty safe assumption that the Oxfordian mages came from the same area.

You're absolutely right, I completely missed this... This makes is much more likely the breach is in North America; why else would a small, faraway wilderness university be able to supply a large contingent of academics travelling through the breach.

A pity, it makes the back story much less believable and realistic... :-(

Which, honestly, is pretty nice since far too many settings focus on magical studies coming from the Old World.

I have to say I don't completely disagree with you. A genuine New World magical setting could be rather refreshing.

However, the timing as presented is problematic. Early 19th century US was s truly tiny country population wise, with a disproportionately large primary sector. A brilliant magical talent like Hannah comming from there is would certainly be possible, but considerably less likely than most other places...

If the oroginal opening of thr breach was moved forward in time, or having less of an impact on the world, or an explanation was provided for the much earlier settlement of North America compared to in our world, and it could have been perfectly believable...

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I thought the whole point of the gathering to open the breech in America was BECAUSE it was sparsely populated. I could be misremembering but I thought the world's practitioners gathered in a western local in the United States specifically because it was theoretically neutral territory, in an established magical tradition way, and there were less people around to snoop and spy, as well as threaten should their attempt to restore magic to the world fail or come to a disastrous end.

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