Pride365 Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 Okay ... The complaint here is the Female Multi-pose miniature is too tall/out of scale compared with current batch of Malifaux miniatures, and the chaps at Wyrd are seemingly okay with them being a different size/scale as they were developed, primarily, for use with the RPG and as a nice stretch goal for the Kickstarter backers. Assuming I've got the gist of the complaint correct I'm not entirely sure what grounds anyone has to feel particularly hard done by. By all accounts the miniatures are of a different size, some would say a noticeable amount. But these miniatures aren't representative of a particular character from the Malifaux universe are they? On what grounds does anyone claim they aren't to scale or too big? Yes, they definitely appear to be taller than most other miniatures in the game, but all those miniatures have descriptions and/or artwork of the characters they represent and thus have a scale to be measured against. By their very nature the multi-pose miniatures aren't representing anyone in particular, and thus don't have a scale to be measured against. If someone wants to use them to proxy an, as yet, unreleased miniature or use the pieces to construct some jazzy conversions that's great but I don't see how it can be claimed that they 'Aren't fit for purpose' or 'need fixing'. If you're going to make claims of that nature you really need to specify what was claimed about the miniature that it currently doesn't do. I'm not trying to come down on anyone's side in this and I have no wish to be drawn into an argument over what is clearly a important subject, as it seems that a good number of people feel hurt or let down by the product they've received. However, I'm not just not sure the complaints are valid given the criteria. Look at the front cover of the fated almanac the female is shorter than the man. clearly by their own artwork females are supposed to be shorter than males. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiglitz Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 Are you saying then the multi-pose is meant to be that character and only that character? Or that all women in Malifaux are shorter than men? Also, who is that character and where does it say that the miniature is meant to represent her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobek Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 Am I the only one who wishes that there were more basic arms with pistols on the sprues? Anybody have pictures to post of various ways they've assembled the models yet? Can't wait to start seeing these. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starweaver Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 Swiglitz, there are two kits, the males and the females. There are 2 issues: Firstly the males are all in scale with the malifaux models (good) but the females are a lot taller, all of them. Then, in addition the female models are proportioned poorly, almost all the extra length is in the legs making them look weird (if you look at ratty's picture you'll see that the crotch area (sorry dont know a correct word here) is at elbow height of the male models. The torso and head of the female models are proportioned normally making it look very weird, like caricatures of fashion models with far to long legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pride365 Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 Are you saying then the multi-pose is meant to be that character and only that character? Or that all women in Malifaux are shorter than men? Also, who is that character and where does it say that the miniature is meant to represent her? I will say this again women are on average 6 inches shorter than men. Their own art supports that women are shorter than men. There is no way all women are taller then all men in Malifaux if some of the women were taller and some shorter than you can defend the scale issue but since they aren't they are basically saying all men are shorter then all women and that just isn't true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenx2000 Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 @ Aaron Yes. It's unfortunate to release a product that people are unhappy with We are unhappy with!!? You should be unhappy with it to be begin with. We gave you the money (all of us) to even make this happen. And then to basicly use our trust with all that has happened this last year and more. To then just wave it off suddenly as "it fits the purpose". While hiding behind a statement that it's only for TTB all of the sudden is just not right. Hearing criticism really? I want you to adjust this and step up rather then, we are hearing the criticism. Which tbh doesn't get my models in proper scale i'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 Agreed with Starweaver above, The "real" issue is that you can compare Ttb miniatures between themselves, and the multi-pose male sprues are clearly shorter than their female counterpart. As a rather good modeller, i'll see if i can't solve the leg issue with a knife and putty, but assembling the females as they are atm does produce some pretty weird looking people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiglitz Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 Swiglitz, there are two kits, the males and the females. There are 2 issues: Firstly the males are all in scale with the malifaux models (good) but the females are a lot taller, all of them. Then, in addition the female models are proportioned poorly, almost all the extra length is in the legs making them look weird (if you look at ratty's picture you'll see that the crotch area (sorry dont know a correct word here) is at elbow height of the male models. The torso and head of the female models are proportioned normally making it look very weird, like caricatures of fashion models with far to long legs. Okay, thank you for that. So the male and female TTB minis are not of the same scale compared to one another, that's a valid complaint and I can see why folks would be disappointed by that. I do think it's worth pointing out that the scale between miniatures isn't exactly defined. As an example, look at the McMourning crew: The Zombie Chihuahua and Sebastian are both height 1 but the miniatures are clearly different heights, quite a lot more than the difference in height between the TTB minis. All the rest of the minis are height 2, even thought the Flesh Construct towers over the rest of the crew. Just a thought. Anyway, now that I understand the complaint I'll stop meddling. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pride365 Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 Okay, thank you for that. So the male and female TTB minis are not of the same scale compared to one another, that's a valid complaint and I can see why folks would be disappointed by that. I do think it's worth pointing out that the scale between miniatures isn't exactly defined. As an example, look at the McMourning crew: The Zombie Chihuahua and Sebastian are both height 1 but the miniatures are clearly different heights, quite a lot more than the difference in height between the TTB minis. All the rest of the minis are height 2, even thought the Flesh Construct towers over the rest of the crew. Just a thought. Anyway, now that I understand the complaint I'll stop meddling. Thank you Have you not read any of the comments about the issue? This has been stated several time in several locations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragons_lair04 Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 I am more concerned about only receiving 22 bases for a total of about 44 models. The scale issue isn't a problem for me, my ex was 6'4" tall and I'm only 5'10" tall so I'm used to tall women. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus Mcmold Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 I'm not trying to be a Wyrd apologist with this post, I just want to state my opinions (however dumb they might seem). I've seen the miniatures in person today and they don't look so abhorrantly bad as this thread makes them out to be. The pictures on the first page also shows that. Except the legs that are on avarage very tall proportioned, the models themselves fit the perfect proportion established for the sprue. They are a bit too generically proportioned for my taste, but that should be expected of multiposed model that is supposed to portray average body build. If I went really far with my expectation for a multipose kit, my complaints would be that all of the female models have a bigger breastsize that should be for an average mature woman and there are no multi-proportioned models for different body types that players might want to play and that all models are mostly generically handsome (except for the undead/resser head). But that is not a realistic thing to expect since models weren't a main goal for this particular kickstarter. Maybe we'll get different proportioned "multipose male/female character which aren't necesseraly handsome kit" in the future, or maybe even get kits for building gremlin characters In the meantime, if you look at any add from the fashion industry the people on them have weird unnatural proportions (because they're photoshopped to be more appealing). I don't see that trend being changed in the near future and that is a real issue. Well that goes into 1st world issues and might be a bit off topic, but it also goes to show that these models are not a realistic representation of a female human on the average, but fit well with a possible human figure... Also as it was stated on the first page of this thread, a person with a basic sculpting tools (knife for removing mold lines and plastic cement/glue) could fix the height of the misproportioned miniatures. But this is my observation based on my experience with cutting and glueing plastic miniatures for a couple of years and it might be a bit too objective. Pinning would help even more, but that requires a drill and some people who are into these sorts of games have one just for that purpose. If you play TTB/Malifaux in a some sort of a gaming community there could possibly be other people who could help you to fix these models (and the issue itself) if you wanted to play a game with those. I don't know if this sounds reasonable, I don't want to sound sarcastic. At least that's what I'd do if I had an issue with long legged minis that I wanted to be shorter. I'm definitely going to buy these sprues for conversion purposes when they come out because I have a cool idea for building my own Colette. If anyone with the misproportion issue lives anywhere in Mid-Europe area, I'd be happy to buy the sprue in question off their hands. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausplosions Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 So who do I turn to to get a refund for these minis that are not fit for purpose? They are fit for representing a RPG character. Which is what their purpose was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starweaver Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 and for use in malifaux as was stated in earlier updates. Also, why do people feel fine with having a low standard for rpg models? i don't see why these shouldn't be in scale compared to the other models they released for the rpg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenx2000 Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 "Male and Female Multi-Pose Minis: These multi-part plastic kits include weapons, pose, and clothing detail options to allow you to customize your character's model for use inThrough the Breach or the Malifaux skirmish game." Taken from Pride365 comment a page before this. From their own kickstarter page. So no it was'nt their purpose to be TTB alone Also even considering IF it was only TTB all the male are still all smaller then the females. So even amongst themselves it doesn't fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus Mcmold Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 Anyway I edited my previous long post and made it even longer. To make it short: if people with issues in this thread have issues with longer legs and they want them shorter maybe they could find people with "converting" skills in their gaming communities. I don't know if that sounds crazy, but that's how the people in my area fix these sort of problems. These models aren't that flawed, I've seen them today and they are easily fixed. Games Workshop for instance have a problem with a lot of their plastic when there is a part of the miniarue missing because of the air bubble or whatever that mold problem is called and that seems like a miniature problem that's much harder to fix. My point being, find someone with a scalpel and a drill and they will easily fix the models on the female sprue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starweaver Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 If the comparison with gw is the one you want to make (and lord knows i don't like them) i should point out that for as far as i know for all the complaints about them people seem to agree that their customer service is great and that they make no problem of swapping out those damaged models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Ood Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 if people are so unhappy with their TtB female sprues I will happily purchase a set of the female MPM's for face value say $35?..if you are so bothered by them then by all means sell them to someone who is not..first come first serve, US only, I get paid on the 29th 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boshea Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 The only way they are usable in Malifaux is based on the Gaining grounds proxy and conversion rules, which are largely TO discretion. Being that the Multi-pose models are Wyrd product they meet the requirement of 2/3rds of the model being created by Wyrd. As long as you have it on its legal base, clearly indicate what it is, and have it approved by a TO its legal to use with Malifaux. Seriously, what will it take for people to get over this thing. I wasn't aware they went and kicked your dog as part of the pledge fulfillment. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucidicide Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 I'm going to lock this topic. I think that people have gotten to say their piece on both sides, and I'm worried it will quickly degrade into attacking the other side. It's already VERY borderline. As I said, I'm sorry some people are unhappy with their product. I hope you understand that you've been heard, but there are no plans to change the minis. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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