Ratty Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 Ah yeah, I change my response to "Gremlins did it, then ran away" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uktena Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 Gremlin magic. This forum needs a Dislike button. (You know you like it ,Godly!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbobovalsocks Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 Have they said anywhere when the books and decks are expected to get to stores? They said GenCon releases would be in gaming shops by between October and January so I suppose that would include the new books and cards probably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 They said GenCon releases would be in gaming shops by between October and January so I suppose that would include the new books and cards probably. What they've said is "All non-limited plastic models will be available through your LGS between the months of October and January." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbobovalsocks Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 Ah well! At least they will come with their cards so we will be able to play with the models! I hope the book comes out soon though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonahmaul Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 The book came out pretty soon after Gencon last year didn't it? It just sold out in no time and took forever for reprints to be done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 I have no idea how that's supposed to stay in one piece. You do the Skeeter Safety Bubble. You have to carry it to the LGS on a pillow though and ask the transportation to drive smoothly. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 I recommend using telekinesis to avoid snapping things when trying to move them on the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Shut Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 I think all boxes inevitably need additional purchases. Just Kirai ones aren't available yet is the disappointing bit (at least new versions). I'm going to do what you suggest and throw in Izamu and some of my other Ressers stuff. Sure sooner or later everybody will buy additional stuff for their crew but other boxes (as far as I'm aware) don't actually need them to be played. Kirai needs additional models to make the 26 soulstones necessary to field a master (with no henchman in the box) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uktena Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 Sure sooner or later everybody will buy additional stuff for their crew but other boxes (as far as I'm aware) don't actually need them to be played. Kirai needs additional models to make the 26 soulstones necessary to field a master (with no henchman in the box) Before upgrades and pool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupercal Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 Kirai was like this last edition too, and was actually much worse in her old box set IIRC. I really think complaning about it is silly, the master just requires a great deal of models before she works properly, at least the stuff she has in the box IS everything you need to be able to make her work, I seem to remember the last box set of hers contained 2 Seishin but you needed like 5 at least? I get that it is annoying to need more boxes for the crew box to work, but really if they put everything into a box to make a 25-30ss crew with Kirai it would be a massive box and you still wouldn't be able to summon anything unless it was an even bigger box. With a master like this I think you just need to accept that you will need to spend more money to get the same sized game when starting out. I also haven't seen anyone complaining a bit about the Dreamer box, despite the fact that you would never start with anything in it on the table except 2-3 Daydreams and Coppelius. This is probably worse in terms of starting army value than the old Dreamer box with the 2 stitched in it, but I can still see why they made the Dreamer box the way they did now that he can summon, I would be more annoyed if the Kirai or Dreamer box came with more SS count in it to make the crew box game better, but didnt come with the stuff she/he needed to work properly. It is probably more of a psychological thing than anything because either way you are still spending money on more models to make the box set work at a basic level, but I would still rather the basic box come with the tools the Master needs to make their mechanics work. I mean think about it, with the old Kirai box you could concievably pick up the crew box plus other spirits and some stuff to summon or whatever, without getting another pack of seishin it still wouldnt work properly. Really I think at the end of the day it comes down to the fact that it is an expensive hobby and you are picking one of the most expensive masters to start. When I used to play 40k you could start with a SM army at 500 points of like 10-25 models, if you could even fit that many in the points cost. At the same time someone wanting to start a footslogging IG army at the same points cost needed a good 40-50 men? We are lucky in Malifaux that the starting crew boxes are so similar in monetary cost and SS cost and model count, and that you can even take most of the crew boxes vs another crew box and have a fairly balanced game. With how many there are and how different the masters are, that is no mean feat to even partially balance. As an aside, just because I am wondering, can anyone else think of any box sets other than Kirai or Dreamer that need a great deal of additional purchases before they can really work well? I just want to try to remember them for giving advice to new people who are starting. I usually don't tell people to steer clear of Nico but I let them know he is MUCH stronger with a huge pool of summons to draw on. For Kirai and the Dreamer I would probably actively steer new players away unless they understood that it would take a lot more money to start up than it would with another master. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 Well I just hope Seishin will actually be available separately. If Wyrd follow their typical pattern only the Onryo will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupercal Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 Well I just hope Seishin will actually be available separately. If Wyrd follow their typical pattern only the Onryo will be. I have no idea as I haven't played her at all but I was under the impression you didn't need a ton of Seishin to make Kirai work anymore? Or do you still need more than 2? If you need 3 I would think its dumb for them to not include it in the box, but if you need 4-5 I definitely hope they will sell them separately as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnternalVoid Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 I have no idea as I haven't played her at all but I was under the impression you didn't need a ton of Seishin to make Kirai work anymore? Or do you still need more than 2? If you need 3 I would think its dumb for them to not include it in the box, but if you need 4-5 I definitely hope they will sell them separately as well. I suspect that Seshin will be available seperately, as other models besides Kirai can summon them *Datsu Ba with her upgrade and any spirit with the Spirit Beacon upgrade*. From experience rarely was there more than 1-3 on the table at a time in games I have seen but at the same time I can see how they can easily get up to 5 if someone wants to maintain rather than use them as soon as they make them *or someone gets lucky with Spirit Beacon*. As they are Rare 5 I imagine having 5 would be just a safe bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PraetorDragoon Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 I also haven't seen anyone complaining a bit about the Dreamer box, despite the fact that you would never start with anything in it on the table except 2-3 Daydreams and Coppelius. This is probably worse in terms of starting army value than the old Dreamer box with the 2 stitched in it, but I can still see why they made the Dreamer box the way they did now that he can summon, I would be more annoyed if the Kirai or Dreamer box came with more SS count in it to make the crew box game better, but didnt come with the stuff she/he needed to work properly. It is probably more of a psychological thing than anything because either way you are still spending money on more models to make the box set work at a basic level, but I would still rather the basic box come with the tools the Master needs to make their mechanics work. I mean think about it, with the old Kirai box you could concievably pick up the crew box plus other spirits and some stuff to summon or whatever, without getting another pack of seishin it still wouldnt work properly. A main point I consider of playing malifaux is that a box contains a actual starting force that you play intro games with. Is it a good force that you will field when you know stuff? No. But at least you can pick up the box, paint & assemble it, and play a starting game with a friend. Kirai's box lacks that. Which is my only gripe, actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 Leviticus was also fairly bad, because you didn't get his whole compliment of Hollow Waifs in the metal box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupercal Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 A main point I consider of playing malifaux is that a box contains a actual starting force that you play intro games with. Is it a good force that you will field when you know stuff? No. But at least you can pick up the box, paint & assemble it, and play a starting game with a friend. Kirai's box lacks that. Which is my only gripe, actually. I agree with you, I just think that with Kirai in particular it is a slightly unrealistic request, unless you want to make the box cost a bit more. Personally I would be all for a slightly more expensive Kirai box that came with a good starting crew in it, I just think Wyrd was probably focusing more on lowering the cost of the box than anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 The the 2 options, a really big box for Kirai that gives her everything she needs and a crew. A normal sized box that gives her just what she really needs in core models. I would argue the latter is much better now there are 3 Masters that can run spirit heavy crews. You can get Molly some Spirits and then add Kirai, Or Kirai some Spirits and then add Molly or Yan Lo... I think it works better for collectors the latter way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupercal Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 The the 2 options, a really big box for Kirai that gives her everything she needs and a crew. A normal sized box that gives her just what she really needs in core models. I would argue the latter is much better now there are 3 Masters that can run spirit heavy crews. You can get Molly some Spirits and then add Kirai, Or Kirai some Spirits and then add Molly or Yan Lo... I think it works better for collectors the latter way. I think it makes perfect sense for them to do it the way they did just because people don't want to pay more for a starter box, and your point about Molly and Yan Lo boxes makes the way they chose to do it even more valid. All this aside, I would still be willing to pay more for a nice Kirai box that came with a fully useable crew in it. I just understand why they didn't do it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted August 10, 2014 Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 I suspect that Seshin will be available seperately, as other models besides Kirai can summon them *Datsu Ba with her upgrade and any spirit with the Spirit Beacon upgrade*. From experience rarely was there more than 1-3 on the table at a time in games I have seen but at the same time I can see how they can easily get up to 5 if someone wants to maintain rather than use them as soon as they make them *or someone gets lucky with Spirit Beacon*. As they are Rare 5 I imagine having 5 would be just a safe bet. While it must be rare to have five out, it should be easy to go over two unless you tailor your activation order to spend them immediately, which would grate a bit to do because of what models you have available. A box of their own would be the most customer friendly, but considering that they are trying to keep the number of product codes down, having a box with Datsu Ba and some Seishin would be a good compromise IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Shut Posted August 10, 2014 Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 Before upgrades and pool. There's a good chance I'm missing something but I'm only getting to 24 SS after upgrades and pool On a different note the samurai are absolutely awesome. I may need to start a Ten Thunders crew at some point in the future Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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