Stupid Bob Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 There was discussion in Neverborn forum about Dreamer summoning that resulted in request for batreps, so here's link to one : versus Seamus: http://bloodskullsfire.blogspot.com/2014/07/malifauxexperiences-with-dreamer.html versus Mei Feng: http://bloodskullsfire.blogspot.com/2014/07/malifaux-monday-dreamer-vs-mei-feng.html versus Marcus: http://bloodskullsfire.blogspot.com/2014/07/malifaux-monday-dreamer-faces-marcus.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishSausage Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Yup, people rage quit when playing against the dreamer in our local group as well. Sometimes things line up so well for dreamer that there is no coming back from by turn 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuttleboy Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Summoning Dreamer has a HUGE advantage at lower SS games. This is a pretty good example of that advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausplosions Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 35SS is not a particularly effective measure of a crews power level. Particularly summoning based crews. Battle reports should be in the 45-50ss range, as 50 is the level the game is designed for. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypoking Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Might be nice to get some metrics for these discussions, ie, spent x ap/stones/cards on summoning to generate y ss worth of models and z ap over so many turns. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
necroon Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 35SS is not a particularly effective measure of a crews power level. Particularly summoning based crews. Battle reports should be in the 45-50ss range, as 50 is the level the game is designed for. Might be nice to get some metrics for these discussions, ie, spent x ap/stones/cards on summoning to generate y ss worth of models and z ap over so many turns. I agree with both of these statements and think they should really be kept in mind if the goal is to assess whether or not the Dreamer's Summoning Power level is too high or unbalanced. Also I really liked the Battle report format and style: props to the writer and good job! It was sad to read that the Seamus player was so frustrated. I know I've, myself, played a match against Seamus with the Dreamer at a higher SS level and had a lot of fun (I lost, actually) but it's one of the best games I've ever played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Godlyness Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 You summoned daydreams and he quit. I like it. I summon figments of my imagination. Rage quit ensues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnternalVoid Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Well I have to admit that was a somewhat painful game to read. Not the presentation but how it went. It seems to me that the Seamus player made several rather grueling mistakes from the get go. The first being I would not take Mahaha as an upgrade for Seamus in a 35ss list, namely if I lack alot of cheap undead models myself or against a faction which have masters that have strong Non-living or undead elements. With Dreamer and Collodi being both more Construct and Nightmare people, not to mention plenty of these models work well with the other masters, Neverborn and Arcanist are the ones I would be more leery about taking the upgrade against. Bete to me is kind of the same way, better when you know living and undead are going to be in better numbers. It really hampered him to have to start with her on the field and have her march around. Alot of points that kind of thrown to the wind. Two Canine Remains likely would have supported him better for this low of points but as you said he was pretty limited by his selection. The other thing that hit me was the fact he did not take Power Ritual himself, like you said Breakthrough and Assassinate were likely not the best pair to have taken. It really seemed like his lack of experience or knowledge was hurting his own options. For example had he moved Sybelle forward first turn and used Call Belle to advance one of the Rotten Belles foward it could likely have been casting Lure on one of the Insidius madnesses first turn. With Incorporial and their Walk he could have pulled it off its course for the corner. Still it does highlight some of the trouble with summoning at low ss levels, though I will agree with you he still had some options, just at that point in the game I suspect he was to far behind to win but could have at least gotten the points closer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Just out of curiosity, did you give Lelu slow when you summoned Lilitu? The report isn't clear either way, but I was just curious. I wasn't sure how Lelu ended up Fast at the top of Turn 3, either. Frantic trigger from the Dreamer, maybe? Also note that models can't drop scheme markers the turn they are summoned, so Lelu shouldn't have been able to drop a scheme marker turn 1. It also looks like he wasted Bete by having her run around and remove scheme markers, which is a job that could have been better performed by a cheaper model, allowing him to commit Bete (and her very good melee damage) to fighting against Dreamer and his summoned models. Mutilate could have really limited the effectiveness of the twins, even if she didn't kill htem off. Otherwise, yeah, it looks like he was overwhelmed by summoning due to the low soulstone level of the game and just generally being a new player with a very limited model pool against a more experienced (or at least, more prepared) player with a more diverse model pool. As you noted, his scheme selection probably could have been better; against summoning Dreamer, Distract would have been more effective, as he could Distract one of the twins and get the other one as well. In any case, thank you for the battle report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuttleboy Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 I figure he got the It's My Dream trigger to avoid slow twins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupid Bob Posted July 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Good feedback from all. Summoning is of course proportionally meaner at lower points. I had a clear and deliberate plan. He did not. Im prepping for Nova while hes just learning the game (anyone looking for doubles partner? ) I think my impression of dreamer is that hes something of a seal clubber army...good at starter level matches but will be checked by more experienced competitive crews and players. Should have another 35ss match this week! Thx for reading! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupid Bob Posted July 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 More Dreamer fun! Not as detailed as I'd like (I'm old and blonde!) but still entertaining (I hope!) http://bloodskullsfire.blogspot.com/2014/07/malifaux-monday-dreamer-vs-mei-feng.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnternalVoid Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 Nice report but a few little notes. First, the Emberling is not a Peon, it is actually a Minion. Meaning he had no Peons in his crew. Second Make them Suffer is Peon and Minions, meaning that his Emberling or Rail Workers would get you points if killed by a master or Henchman. Third, Stitched are Constructs as such the Emberling does not set them on fire but instead deals 2 damage to them. So slightly better than burning. Another part did hit me as curious, not sure how exactly the armor ignoring teeth of the Weaver helped against the Rail Worker really on turn 3-4ish unless it was forgotten they have hard to kill. Because either he was on 1wd left and the armor would not have helped him or hard to wound was forgotten and he got killed in the one hit *as the other AP was used on Seize Prey*. Also who handed that final Cursed Object? Dreamer went marker dropping, Lelu and Coppelius killed Kang, Lilitu lured, so I might be missing who it was. Also poor Rail Worker, he had a decent chance thanks to his (0) action to kill that last daydream, I am guessing one of the daydream's defenses was either cheated high or flipped high. Otherwise with his (0) action he should easily have been able to cheat damage if he hit, and with a moderate 4 and severe 5 have a decent shot at doing 2-3 damage in a hit to a day dream. It really seemed that for a while he had a chance on tipping the match, but just could not get that last little push to stop you and instead got ground to scrap. Nice read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cats Laughing Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 Another part did hit me as curious, not sure how exactly the armor ignoring teeth of the Weaver helped against the Rail Worker really on turn 3-4ish unless it was forgotten they have hard to kill. Because either he was on 1wd left and the armor would not have helped him or hard to wound was forgotten and he got killed in the one hit *as the other AP was used on Seize Prey*. Side note (this may not actually have any effect on how the game played): The Metal on Metal trigger does not give armor to the Rail Worker, so would not be ignored by the Widow Weaver. The Rail Worker also has innate Armor, which would be ignored by the Widow Weaver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 How did he not get any points for Bodyguard? He should have got at least 1 at the end of turn 4 if he has reveled it. Interesting report, thank you for wirting it, I certainly enjoyed reading it. It does seem to show the dangers of summonign dreamer with certain strategy/scheme combinations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupid Bob Posted July 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 Sorry for not having the details I should have in there! He may have gotten a point for Bodyguard, he just told me he had 5, and I guessed from what! He did not mention Hard to Kill on the Rail Workers, so probably misplayed there! Coppelius handed the cursed object to the Rail Worker before he plucked out Kang's eye! Railworker had a mediocre attack flip, ended up with straight damage flip, and had nothing good to cheat with. Having not kept up with the points thru the game, I thought he had me until he told me he had only 5 points! But really, this was a 'light' game, we were constantly going off to visit other people and watch/help other games etc. I think that little 35ss game took us almost 5 hours to do because we kept doing other things! Social butterflies, we are! Thanks for reading! I promise I'll take better notes next time! It does seem to show the dangers of summonign dreamer with certain strategy/scheme combinations. Does it? I mean, I brought 3 daydreams 2 alps and a 5pt upgrade to enable/ensure casting and healing of summoned stuff. I spent 17 points to summon 20 points worth of stuff? Widow did very little in the game, dropping her I could have had Copp, Lelu, Lilitu on the table to start with and summoned daydreams as needed and been in the same situation, right? And without having to do shenanigans to heal them up and get them ready to fight...I don't know, doesn't seem like a big deal to me. I'm reserving judgement until I can play some 50ss games and see how it goes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 I was going on your guess of his points. Its very rare that I see anyone get 3 points for reckoning. Where as here it seemed like he got a decent number of points from reckoning and make them suffer, which wouldn't surprise me, its a lot easier to kill 2 models a turn and 1 minion/peon with a master or henchmen when you are summoning 3 wound Daydreams or 1 wound models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupid Bob Posted July 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 Ahh, I understand. I took it to mean 'dangers' as in Dreamer is Dangerous, now I understand you meant it was dangerous of me to throw all that stupid easy to kill stuff out there for Mei to roundhouse kick off the table. Yes, but I don't know if that's so much a danger of Summony Dreamer as it is of a bad player that could barely keep track of his own schemes, let alone consider what the opponent is doing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 I'm enjoying the battle reports. Have you considered playing Chompy Dreamer just to contrast that playstyle with the summoning one you've been playing? I'm curious what you and your opponents would think about the switch up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupid Bob Posted July 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Yes, I intend to go Chompy style next time I play the Seamus player. Another Dreamer battle...versus Marcus! http://bloodskullsfire.blogspot.com/2014/07/malifaux-monday-dreamer-faces-marcus.html 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuttleboy Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Love, love, love seeing these batreps and your group growing in the game. Great work and keep them coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonatep Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 I very like the houses and forest, where did you get them? I will take your idea for fog nightmare, it's great. Nice report, seems like dreamer summoning is very strong, I personnaly don't like the alp and not summon coppelius, have him on the base list to have better chances of surviving before he get eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Cheers for the report, it looks great. I think you should ahve got 10 VP thought, Plant evidence earns you 1 vp for each schem marker you have next to terrain, so having 3 allows you to get 3 vp. If you reveal it and you get at least 2, you would also score 3 vp, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupid Bob Posted July 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Thanks for the positive feedback guys! I enjoy writing the batreps, more than anything it helps me evaluate my play and recognize the coulda-shoulda stuff that will (hopefully) help me improve my play. For example in this one, I was just flat out lazy and didn't evaluate the charge range of the Gupps in to my Madness at all...if I'd held back out of their charge range I had a good chance of killing one of them with Madness shooting attacks and dominated both flanks. Any feedback on gameplay from both sides is much appreciated! Forests are Games Workshop (the leaves are horribly prone to breaking off, but hey look nice!) The fences are GW also. The wooden buildings are Urban Lasercraft. The flying buttress chapel is Pegasus Hobbies (maybe an old kit they don't make any more?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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