Nightmares and Teddy Bears - The Dreamer Tactica

[Smokey616]

Ah right! I see... You are going off chompy being the first (out of dreamer and chompy) to activate that round? Can see how it would work that way round, although I don't like the idea of leaving dreamer unburied with slow (If no student), with the opponent to take his activation, right where you have just needed chompy...

Viable tactic, and because of the scope of a complete tactica, well worth a mention. Although for me, a very scary thing to attempt. Really don't like leaving the dreamer exposed out of activation order anywhere never mind somewhere where chompy has jus needed to be... Unless of course he solved the problem

Has anyone spotted anything that hands out the nightmare ability?

[Smokey616]

Tht said the slow makes no difference in this case because the dreamer would have already activated and wouldn't get another activation anyway... And if brought out with (0) sleep my child, he doesn't get slow anyway... Just no activation the second time round

[Adran]

Just to clarify,  the original article was talkign about 2 chompy activations. Which is theoretically possible. Not 2 dreamer activations (which currently isn't possible).

 

If I was going for this, the set up involves summoning Chompy on one turn, let him do his stuff and keep him on the table.

Next turn, hold off activating Chompy till late. I typically find that because people know he is likely to die anyway, they will not bother wasting AP to kill him, so I'm happy to leave him till late.

Near the end of the turn, activate Chompy. Let him do his stuff. Self-Sacrifice him. unbury the Dreamer near nightmares preferably in cover or out of melee range on un activated enemys.

Give the Dreamer Fast (currently only doable with Student I think)

Activate the dreamer and Summon 4 Alps.

Bring out Lord Chompybits due to waking.

Activate Chompy again.

 

 

Cost - No daydreams! (As soon as you summon 1, you lose the student)

4 7+ masks (or stones to add masks)

Some degree of activation control.

 

The Dreamer, just beign buried, does not become a new dreamer, so can not activate more than once in a turn.

Lord Chompybits is summoned each time, so each instance can activate each turn.

And the only thing I can think of that might hand the dreamer Nightmare is his Avatar upgrade.

[Tuttleboy]

It makes me sad that Justin caught that you could get 2 Chompys with Restless Dreams in one turn on the last couple weeks of beta. That's why the "No Chompy from Sh actions" lingo was added to that upgrade.

[Smokey616]

That said I can see his point... It is rather abusive. These days, for me anyway, chompy is no longer the be all and end all of the dreamer crew. With the added stipulations to bringing out chompy, it kinda forces a more strategic standpoint when bringing him out and when to leave him/dreamer exposed out of activation order. Which I believe is both a detriment and a blessing in that it brings all kind of new feinting and baiting ideas while at first appearing to just limit them.

[Tuttleboy]

It definitely was a good thing it was caught. It was just fun as hell to beat on stuff with Chompy twice in 1 turn.

[surdreal]

Great start to an awesome tactica. I am checking every day foaming for the next bit. I am really new to Chompy and the Dream my self (they are still on the painters table) so your timing is perfect.

[Ari and Needlebreath]

 

Cost - No daydreams! (As soon as you summon 1, you lose the student)

4 6+ masks (or stones to add masks)

Some degree of activation control.

Actually, it was changed right near the end of beta. It now requires a 7+, not a 6+. 

I'm sorry to everyone watching that I haven't updated quicker. This week was a transfer to a new job, my anniversary and my SO's birthday and I got a tattoo. So, I've been a bit busy!

Tonight or tomorrow I will be posting full sections for Daydreams, Vasilisa and Alps. :3

[Ari and Needlebreath]

Added Daydreams. I know there was another thread I skimmed through asking how to use them so, if I didn't explain anything well enough, please let me know!

[wizuriel]

Just wondering if anyone can make me a quick 30pt noob friendly list for The Dreamer? One of my friends is interested in the game and the master she is most interested in is The Dreamer and Teddy's.

 

Was looking at:

Neverborn Crew - 30 - Dustup

 

The Dreamer -- 3 Pool

 +Dreams of Pain [5]

 +Otherworldly [2]

 

Daydream X 2 [4]

Insidious Madness [5]

Teddy [11]

 +On Dreaming Wings [2]

[Lupercal]

I would really question taking Dreams of Pain if you are brand new as it is 5 points and a lot of rules to learn if you are bringing in a load of different models.

I also question taking teddy at 30 points because of how expensive nightmares are in general it makes it very difficult to fit him in without sacrificing a lot.

I personally would run something like this for a brand new player if they wanted to try dreamer and loved teddy:

Neverborn Crew - 35 - Dustup

The Dreamer -- 3 Pool
 +Otherworldly [2]
 +Restless Dreams [1]
 +Tantrum [2]

Daydream X 2 [4]
Stitched Together [6]
Stitched Together [6]
Teddy [11]
 +On Dreaming Wings [2]

OR

The Dreamer -- 3 Pool
 +Dreams of Pain [5]
 +Otherworldly [2]

Daydream X 2 [4]
Stitched Together [6]
Stitched Together [6]
Teddy [11]
(can drop the stitched to a madness and give up a stone from your cache if you really want dreaming wings on teddy)

Alternatively you could have them try this list at 30ss without summoning.
Neverborn Crew - 30 - Dustup

The Dreamer -- 2 Pool
 +Otherworldly [2]
 +Restless Dreams [1]
 +Tantrum [2]

Daydream X 2 [4]
Insidious Madness [5]
Insidious Madness [5]
Teddy [11]
(You can drop both madness and add a Stitched or 1 Madness and dreaming wings to teddy and take a couple more stones in your pool for chompy and dreamer, again having an 11ss model at a 30ss game with upgrades really limits your choices when dreamers "cheap" models cost 5-6)

If you still want to play summoner dreamer at 30ss AND include a teddy your list is basically the only choice, after Otherworldly and 2 Daydreams it is very difficult to fit much else in. Personally I would prefer a Stitched Together over an Insidious Madness but which is better will depend on the game.  I am just heavily biased towards the Stitched. 

[StaticVortex]

 

Just wondering if anyone can make me a quick 30pt noob friendly list for The Dreamer? One of my friends is interested in the game and the master she is most interested in is The Dreamer and Teddy's.

 

Was looking at:

Neverborn Crew - 30 - Dustup

 

The Dreamer -- 3 Pool

 +Dreams of Pain [5]

 +Otherworldly [2]

 

Daydream X 2 [4]

Insidious Madness [5]

Teddy [11]

 +On Dreaming Wings [2]

 

Malifaux doesn't lend well to pre-made lists.  The Strategy and Scheme pool play a part in what models would work best, some are better at schemes, but may not be stout enough to hold a position, or be all killy.  For instance: if you flip Reckoning and take this list, you'll be generating potential VP targets for your opponent.

 

If you're inclined to take Teddy, consider taking Baby Kade with you.  They're fond of each other.

[wizuriel]

Has to be 30pts because of the slow grow. Might try her with restless dreams as she can still then someone some models at least and won't need to worry about such a large pool. 

 

Though would restless dreams Dreamer really be easier to start than a summoning Dreamer? 

[Insidiously Mad]

I would definitely run with Restless Dreams Dreamer to start. I am still learning (7 games in, 6 with restless dreams) but I think it makes it much easier to learn your crew when you don't have that additional mechanic. Plus summoning is a bit overpowered at such low stone levels. The crew I run at 30ss (usually 35 but I've changed it a bit)

Dreamer
-Restless Dreams 

-Tantrum

Teddy

Coppelius

-On Dreaming Wings

Stiched or Insidious depending on the scheme. 

Can drop Wings for more soul stones if you like but I love it on Coppelius and basically never run him without it, it makes him a phenomenal scheme runner and hunter of enemy scheme runners. Its a very low model count so not the best for actually winning at alot of strategies, but it is the core of what I run at higher point levels(35 has both stitched and insidious or double stitched) and a really fun crew to play.

 

Alternatively dropping Teddy for Stitched and Insidious is good in strategies/schemes that involve for scheme markers and less killing.

[Ari and Needlebreath]

Be wary. Summoning masters, even if you're only aiming at Alps, get more powerful the less stones you're allowed to bring at first. At least in my experience. 

Summoning 14 points of models in a total of 50 is much different than in a total of 30. 

[Joel]

My starting list for dreamer will be

Dreamer (dreams of pain, otherworldly)

3 daydreams

2 teddies

Widow weaver (on dreaming wings)

I'll be summoning objective runners and sending the teddy/teddy/widow team to go killing things and reducing Wp a lot in key board areas.

[Ari and Needlebreath]

Added Vasilisa!

[Insidiously Mad]

I never would have thought of putting Vasilisa in a dreamer crew. I think it would be interesting for some of the non-themed models if you added a blurb on when/why they would be good to add. Its a lot more obvious with the core models, but tricky with some of the non-nightmare models. So in this case I guess its if you want to use Stitched as your objective runners. Makes up for the speed weakness and provides a much sturdier objective runner than Insidious. Squatters rights maybe a good strategy? Not really sure, as I've never used Vasilisa.

[Ari and Needlebreath]

Added the Weaver Widow and took Conorrooney88's advice and added a section at the beginning of both her and Vasilisa that highlight when you would want to hire them. 

[Stupid Bob]

Something you touch out but has really been pretty clear to me is how trying to Summon affects what cards you have available to Cheat with for your fighty guys.

 

I'm always thrilled when I get those high cards and immediately begin considering what I can summon and what I need to summon...then I see that I'm likely going to have a tough fight or two on the upcoming turn and want to have some cards to cheat with to help win those fights.

 

Very often I find myself having a great hand, summoning lots of cool things, then getting my teeth kicked in when my opponent's meanies have high cheat cards available and I don't.

 

This really became apparent to me when I started experimenting with Jacob and Woke Up With A Hand. It's nice to have high cards available for Jacob to shoot someone in the face with his Brilliance Bazooka!

 

Forgive me if it was touched on in there, but I thought the lack of high cards to actually fight with a significant consideration when playing Summony Dreamer.

 

Thanks for an awesome article! Loving it!

[Smokey616]

Something you touch out but has really been pretty clear to me is how trying to Summon affects what cards you have available to Cheat with for your fighty guys.

I'm always thrilled when I get those high cards and immediately begin considering what I can summon and what I need to summon...then I see that I'm likely going to have a tough fight or two on the upcoming turn and want to have some cards to cheat with to help win those fights.

Very often I find myself having a great hand, summoning lots of cool things, then getting my teeth kicked in when my opponent's meanies have high cheat cards available and I don't.

This really became apparent to me when I started experimenting with Jacob and Woke Up With A Hand. It's nice to have high cards available for Jacob to shoot someone in the face with his Brilliance Bazooka!

Forgive me if it was touched on in there, but I thought the lack of high cards to actually fight with a significant consideration when playing Summony Dreamer.

Thanks for an awesome article! Loving it!

True... But then if you play any crew your resource management is an important part of victory/failure/effectiveness... Bare in mind that once you've got round to summoning your awesome 15ss summoned boost to your crew, the crew is still working off the same hand size and to that extent, can still only cheat the same number of times. So of course a lot of your summoned horde isn't going to get the support...

Seems fair to me considering how effective a master he can be when used effectively... Serious crew boostage from turn 1

[Ari and Needlebreath]

Something you touch out but has really been pretty clear to me is how trying to Summon affects what cards you have available to Cheat with for your fighty guys.

 

I'm always thrilled when I get those high cards and immediately begin considering what I can summon and what I need to summon...then I see that I'm likely going to have a tough fight or two on the upcoming turn and want to have some cards to cheat with to help win those fights.

 

Very often I find myself having a great hand, summoning lots of cool things, then getting my teeth kicked in when my opponent's meanies have high cheat cards available and I don't.

 

This really became apparent to me when I started experimenting with Jacob and Woke Up With A Hand. It's nice to have high cards available for Jacob to shoot someone in the face with his Brilliance Bazooka!

 

Forgive me if it was touched on in there, but I thought the lack of high cards to actually fight with a significant consideration when playing Summony Dreamer.

 

Thanks for an awesome article! Loving it!

 

To be fair, I did mention that as a strength of Lord Chompy Bits style Dreamer, in that you don't need high cards to summon as well as fight and defend. But I could have put that more in the open, and you're absolutely right. 

 

 

True... But then if you play any crew your resource management is an important part of victory/failure/effectiveness... Bare in mind that once you've got round to summoning your awesome 15ss summoned boost to your crew, the crew is still working off the same hand size and to that extent, can still only cheat the same number of times. So of course a lot of your summoned horde isn't going to get the support...

Seems fair to me considering how effective a master he can be when used effectively... Serious crew boostage from turn 1

 

The idea isn't that it is fair or that it is a skill to learn, he just wanted me to be sure to explain it for those people who are very new and aren't aware of it. And there is going to be an entire section of the Stitched Together's usage to set up a pit of webs and leech cards off of a hapless opponent. There is certainly more than just six cards against six cards in a game of Malifaux, even more so when you get some shenanigans going on.

[Smokey616]

Maybe so... Although simple maths points out that same cards divided by more models equals less card per model, therefore less chance of having the cards to help your newly summoned models...

Perhaps fair was an incorrect selection of word and I maybe should have opted for 'balanced', when the matter summarised was "spent too many high cards summoning, having problems supporting summoned horde"... And I'm afraid I disagree... I believe the reason the dreamer mechanic changed was to provide more balance to a massively broken master...

And I also believe that resource management is a hugely vital "skill to learn", given the subject both the quoted articles centre on, and that these posts are taken as read and not in anticipation of some enlightening "shenanigans" that will be processed in the future... Yes there is more than six cards vs six cards in a game of malifaux... And perhaps after the dreamers activation you are faced with say 3 cards against the opponents 6 with more to protect... In that case it's nothing to do with 6 card vs 6 cards... It's now more to do with "half of my cards gone on summoning, half left to help everything else"... Working with really simple probability here, and not much else. And that was the point I was trying to make... The more you summon the less help with twisting fate they are going to receive... Which as you've already said the opposite is a valid point for "LCB dreamer"... Why is the antithesis not relevant for summoning dreamer?

[Ari and Needlebreath]

 

-Snipped-

I'm sorry. Understanding what, exactly, you're trying to say is difficult. Let me give it my best and if I'm incorrect, please explain.

 

The biggest issue, I think, is that you and I seem to be on a disconnect. I understand that resource management is an important skill to learn. My first post was saying that I should go back into the first post in this thread and make a larger section specifically for managing the resource of your hand. I'm not arguing against you, saying you're incorrect, talking about balance or anything of the sort. Stupid Bob asked me to expand, in the tactica, an explanation on how to manage your resource of cards in hand and how to offset the cost of summoning. My plan of action was to go back and add this explanation to the current existing tactica. 

 

I agree that resource management is a vital skill to learn, which is what I said the first time, and also why I'm going to add a larger section for simply that.

 

If the only point you were trying to make is that the more you summon, the less cards in hand you will have to twist fate later on in the turn or even the match, then you, I and Stupid Bob have all been on the same page and agreeing with each other this entire time.

 

I mentioned that I would also add a section on effectively using the Stitched Together to get more cards and offset the difficulties of summoning, but that was apparently missed. 

[Ari and Needlebreath]

After reading a lot of the other threads here about The Dreamer, I feel like my personal dislike of LCB style Dreamer is unfounded and unfair. I removed the lines insinuating that, and will expand the section tomorrow/tonight.