Nightmares and Teddy Bears - The Dreamer Tactica

[daniello_s]

Ok, thanks.

Just one note to remember - Serena cannot be charged. 

[Domin]

It takes you to spend 2 AP of Master on card-farming rather then on summon itself. I personally consider this as an overkill. 

Anyway, since The Rage Builds effect lasts for the rest of an Activation, your last step will only give you 1 card.

[Fablo]

7 hours ago, Domin said:

It takes you to spend 2 AP of Master on card-farming rather then on summon itself. I personally consider this as an overkill. 

Anyway, since The Rage Builds effect lasts for the rest of an Activation, your last step will only give you 1 card.

Yeah, i saw it later.

It's an overkill indeed, was planned only to summon Teddy every turn. 
Maybe this cards engine can work in a Tantrum/Restless Dreams oriented build?

[Reservoir Dog]

Would the widow weavers web markers combine with Dreamers crow trigger on his twist reality attack? Ie do the web markers mean that a wp5 model within 3 inches could be paralyzed?

I think they would as web markers reduce wp by 1 and then dreamers attack paralyzes a model if it has wp4 or less, but I just wanted to check.

[whodares]

13 minutes ago, Reservoir Dog said:

Would the widow weavers web markers combine with Dreamers crow trigger on his twist reality attack? Ie do the web markers mean that a wp5 model within 3 inches could be paralyzed?

I think they would as web markers reduce wp by 1 and then dreamers attack paralyzes a model if it has wp4 or less, but I just wanted to check.

I've always played it as they should indeed work with that trigger.

Models within 3" range lose 1 WP. It doesn't specify during duels only, it's just a flat-out statement of -1 WP.

[lusciousmccabe]

I've never seen any reason to believe it wouldn't. Same with disturbing whispers off the daydreams.

[Treehouse]

@Fablo

I like the approach, though I'm not sure if it is cost efficient. And it depends a lot on your opponent letting you do all of that. I guess it'll only really works turn 1 - and you might be more or less a turn behind.

The main issue I see is the cards flipped for attacking/defending/relenting. The more card cycling you did, the more likely it is that the 13M or RJ turns up in an attack or defense flip. Also, you might not have cards to cheat low on the defense flip, so you'll have to relent, drawing 3 cards. That's an even bigger chance for the 13M and RJ being flipped there. And if you don't get them, you have wasted alot of ressources for one (rarly three) Teddies. It seems more efficient to just take Widow Weaver and summon mass stichet who can be turned into a Teddy later on.

 

But I'd like to try it out. Though I'd leave out the emissary and Marlene Webster. I don't see her value. Sure, she comes back, but you could use a cheap incorporeal model to get hit, and you can resummon it later. Maybe even daydreams which can be used to push around models first.

 

A 'light' version could be this. You lose card draw/cycling but have more SS left for consturcting your list and not using so many AP with Dreamer

 

Dreamer (Otherworldly, DoP. Wings, +4 SS) --> 12SS

B.wretch --> 5SS

Doppelganger --> 7SS

Mr.Tannen --> 6SS

2x Daydreams --> 4SS

Bandersnatch --> 5SS (since it has +1 wound than I.madness at the same cost)

That leaves 11 points for whatever. I'd suggest maybe Mr. Graves (there is not much damage output in the list) and another Daydream to sack for Dreamer on the defensive. Or even Marlena to make some Nightmares so that Da<ydreams can push them forward since you lose a lot of movement. Though that would be yet another support model. 

 

1. Dreamer stones (+3 cycled)

2. Dreamer activates.

    a) If you have a 7+ tomes in hand: Cast Playtime on B.wretch and Doppelganger. Then summon Lilitu if ableo or sth else. (If Lilitu, she can Lure Dreamer up the board later)

    b) If you don't: Give B.wretch fast.. Then cast playtime on B.wretch. Then, either cast Palytime again on Doppelg., or summon Lilitu if possible.

3. a) If you do: Start with B.wretch. Rage Builds + 1 hit on Bandersnatch. 2 dmg (most likely) (+3 cards, discard 1)

    b) If you don't: Start with Doppelganger. Mimic Rage Builds and hit Bandersnatch . 1 dmg (most likely) (+2 cards, discard 1) (+3 if you cast Playtime and didn't  

         summon)

4. Activate Bandersnatch near Dreamer. Heal to full. Walk somewhere.

5. Now: a) Activate Doppelganger, Mimic Rage Builds (use 7+ Tomes) and charge Bandersnatch. 2x 2 dmg  (+6 cards, discard 2), Bandersnatch probably even lives

                   because Doppelganger does base card damage.

              b) Activate B.wretch. Rage Builds and charge Bandersnatch. 2x 2-3 dmg  (+6 cards, discard 2), Bandersnatch is killed.

6. Do some other stuff with rest of the crew.

 

 

 

[Treehouse]

Edit:

If you give B.wretch fast in scenario b) and attack the bandersnatch, it'll die and you'll have to attack sth else with Doppelganger. Still, as your models heal near Dreamer, that would actually not be a problem at all, as I just realized. Though you'd miss on summoning.

Basically, in a) you have seen 18 cards and Bandersnatch lives, in b) you've seen 17 cards and Bandersnatch dies or you lose on movement.

(Note that you could still flip 13M or RJ during all those duels)

 

[daniello_s]

Seems like whole turn 1 you are doing basically nothing but cycling cards with all your crew. While it is nice to have good cards on turn 2 your opponent will play strategy/schemes in the meantime and you might find yourself in really difficult position almost from the start of the game.

[Treehouse]

That's what I meant.

 

But with the list suggested you could at least have some movement and summoning. And a decent-sized starting crew.

[Tendrepie]

4 hours ago, Treehouse said:

@Treehouse

I think you meant Serena? (not marlena)

These card drawing tricks seems fun but I'm not sure I'd like to be at the receiving end of anything that can move and attack you quickly with that kind of list... Just thinking of facing Misaki storm or the Viks with it make me shivers! You probably would end up with an amazing hand but very few models left to play the cards :S

I'm not sure I Like that Dreamer has to activate so early too. In my experience summoning toward end of T1 so your summon can be healed a little by Dreamer aura while you are outactivating the other crew and/or do evil things right away to models that came too close can be a big deal for a successful game.

I guess in the card drawing gimmick, if you can get a pair of Teddy start of T2 then at least you have something to retaliate... But then again Dreamer would have to activate early T2... anyway food for thought! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Treehouse]

If you leave out Playtime and handing out fast, you could activate the Wretch and Doppelganger before Dreamer and you'd still see a few cards.

But, yeah, it's a gimmicky list I wouldn't take on tournaments. (And Teddy won't even have many wounds even after Dreamer's aura and Regeneration).

 

Just remembered you could take Gracie who can reactivate herself. If you cast Playtime on her, she can Take A Bite to heal herself back up and draw 4 cards in total (I'd field that for the lolz).

[daniello_s]

How's Dreamer seen in current state of the game? Good? Bad? So-so?

[(Keenan)]

On 7/21/2018 at 1:49 PM, daniello_s said:

How's Dreamer seen in current state of the game? Good? Bad? So-so?

Everything I've read I'd say so-so at best.  The Daydream change seemed to neuter summoning pretty well (I think it could still be fine, but that's just my unproven opinion) and cricket bat Dreamer is good but not enough to make up for the competitiveness of old summoning Dreamer

[Anung Un Rama]

I have just picked up the dreamer box and I wish to get my head around him. What’s the simplest way to play a crew lead by him? What models does he need?

[Ackfactor]

Shooting Chompy-Dreamer is how I learned him (summoning Dreamer adds an extra layer of difficulty if you're not used to it (depends on how new to the game you are)). Though, if you want a super-flexible non-summoning Dreamer, taking Growing Up, Sleep Cycles, and Tantrum gives you lots of options and plenty of opportunities to get Chompy on the table. His obvious synergies are with Nightmares - and you can always summon Alps & Daydreams.

A good crew would likely have Lelitu (her Lure is great in GG '18), a Daydream or two for the pushes and to sack if Dreamer gets in trouble, and a Stitched Together is a good base. 

Coppelius is relatively good at running schemes (though he's a bit expensive for it) - and is pretty good at hunting down opposing scheme runners (due to his speed and Horror Duel generation).

 

Honestly, with the Hooded Rider now at 10 stones - I have a tough time keeping him out of any crew. Bring Serena Bowman and you can make him a Nightmare (or any other minion/enforce you want to throw Warped Reality on) - which gives you other options as well.

[Domin]

Had a couple of test with this list:

Declared Faction: Neverborn
Crew Name: DreamStrike 50ss
Leader: The Dreamer - Cache:(5)
- Dreams of Pain 5ss
- Otherworldly 2ss
Daydream 2ss

Daydream 2ss
Doppleganger 7ss
-A Thousand Faces 1ss
Mr. Tannen 6ss
Bloodwretch 5ss
Grootslang 6ss
Aionus 12ss

I see this as a compromise between summoning alpha-striking. First of all, we place Lair markers in strategic points near the centerline. Boosting the hand with fast BW, we use one or two mask cards for summoning and other Dreamer's AP to give Playtime to Grootslang and, possibly, Doppleganger. Then make some more hand-boosting with fast Doppleganger (changing TF to pact and drawing a card), cycle actiavations and then replace Lair marker with "Time changes all" of Aionus. And with last activation we use fast Grootslang to jump in the middle of an enemy lines and make a potentially unstopable chain of attacks, drawing a card each time we damage an enemy.
 

So we can end the first turn with lots of damage and lots of card on a hand - which both make the following game much easier.