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Why does it all come back to toshiro?

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So, I've been doing a lot of thinking about where I want to expand into next. I've thought about getting back into arcanists, I've thought about branching into 10 thunders (I have a couple masters, and I'm really interested in the way the dual factions that supposedly "only play" in their non-10 thunders factions- it's like a puzzle I want to figure out...


Then I thought about ressurs and as a mcmourning and tara owner I look at my options and see:


Seamus and Molly (Who I love for fluff reasons) who I don't really want to play, and don't have a ton of the models. 


Yan Lo, who falls into the 10 thunders problem, "Oh he plays best with Ressurs". But I'm not really in love with his play style either...


And Kirai, who I sort of have a crush on. 


If I were to launch into 10 thunders, one of the people I'd love to play is Mei Feng, and from the looks of it, command the graves and Toshiro look like an excellent add to that crew. As well as any crew that loves to have minions around, like McCabe perhaps. 


And if I get into Kirai, I hear that Toshiro is an amazing add there, as he is giving buffs to the minions Kirai's summoning, and is able to give her a recurring wound battery in the Komainu or the Ashigaru.


The only real problem is I don't really love the sculpt of Toshiro. I know that I can go down one of two or three roads:

  • One Suck it up and buy him anyways- if he's that good a model, I'll get over it.
  • Two: Get a proxy and do some painting and modeling to make him make sense, but potentially forfeit my ability to play him at sanctioned events. 
  • Three: Buy him and canabalize the fig untill there's enough of the original model left for him to be considered a "Conversion", though my feelings on the model are at such a base level that I don't know what I'd like to "save".


So, here's me. I essentially want to play Toshiro, without buying the toshiro, be able to summon ashigaru, without having to buy the whole Yan Lo Box, and be able to summon Komainu, without being able to buy a wyrd komainu.


I already have my Komainu proxies picked out. It's the Toshiro problem, and the yan lo problem... :P


I don't really know what I'm asking for, besides sort of thinking out loud. 


Has anyone had really good experiences with Toshiro the daimyo? Cool paint jobs or conversions to punch up the idea of the model to me? I don't play a ton of ressurs, and I don't see myself taking them to tournaments any time real soon, but the crew looks both solid and really fun, and I would like to be able to run Mei as 10 thunders occasionally as well...


Baaagghhh... I dunno.



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Heh, I get it. I actually quite like the Toshiro model- in fact, he's the reason I bought the Yan Lo set to begin with, as having Nicodem-style aura of awesome on a henchmen would let me try something different while still getting to hold on to my security blanket. Also, the idea of stacking those auras is vaguely horrifying...


Sadly, my gaming group, while still loving Malifaux theoretically, haven't responded to game invitations at all in nearly 6 months. Sigh...


How badly do you hate the model? Is there something specific about it you hate that could be removed or altered? How often do you actually attend official tourneys/conventions? Seems to me if you're mostly playing casual, doesn't really matter. If you're playing a few tourneys a year, maybe buy an alternate as well as an official model? Use the alternate for your friendly games, and glare menacingly at people when they require you to pull your (likely unpainted) actual Toshiro out of your bag? Seems like a waste of money to me, but maybe you hate the model badly enough?


Toshiro is awesome, in my book, and while I haven't used him in a wide variety of crews, I don't think there's a crew that doesn't benefit from his abilities in some way. He's hands-down my favorite resser henchman, far and away. I say get him.

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That's a fourth option I briefly considered... I played in local tournies in michigan where my henchman was very cool about conversions/proxies stating, "If I can tell who it's supposed to be..."


I played at the last Adepticon, and intend to again, and Sean was initially of the same feeling, though all models had to be approved before the first day of the tournament. But, he said in a podcast recently that he would probably be cracking down on the gaining grounds document in the following years.


I don't love a lot of him... lol. The wider frame, the spareribs, the intestines, the googly eye... He doesn't really look like he ought to have a 6 melee, or the command of anything. I mean, Morti and Sebas are both pretty dumpy as far as henchman are concerned, but it's sort of in their fluff. And they also look awesome. And the rest of Yan Lo's crew is totally cool looking, with Chiaki and Izamu being the cream of the crop... The the answer is I kinda hate the all of the model. don't think I can take 50% of it for the conversion total.


I was thinking of using a Bushido model as a starting point:



Paint him with some undead colored skin, maybe give him some pock marks and scars from old wounds, like arrow wounds and a chest gash or something- Something more akin to a man who has fought for so long that even after he has died, he doesn't know what else to do.


There are also Komainu in the Bushido line, so I would toss a couple on that order as well. And I know there are some Komainu in the Kensai miniatures line to give me some variety. 


But I like the wyrd Ashigaru- everything except the "You also have to buy yan lo, and the soul porter". Chiaki can come along for the party- she's a solid enforcer who's got condition removal and a way to increase her cast. And the model is quite pretty. So, while that's a problem for me right now (low funds), I'll eventually get over that. Buy by the time I want to get into Kirai, I'll have a lot of stuff to buy already, and won't want to have to deal with a whole extra crew as well... >.<;


First world problems. But anyways. I feel like if it all came down to it, and the event I was going to was strict no proxy gaining ground, I could just not play ressurs. Which is the easiest option. But if I feel in love with her and thought I could place well running a Kirai crew that depended on a toshsiro, I probably would buy and paint the original. Begrudgingly. 

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So from the sounds of it you would like him more along the lines of the Punk Zombies then and less like falling apart corpse.  Personally I was not a big fan of his model either.  I hated the shaft through him and the eye, so I did not put the shaft on and green stuffed to hide the hole.  For the eye I am likely going to clean it with the knife before I paint him and just have it as an empty socket.  I had less of an issue with his gut and wide frame so I was lucky there and did not have to go any further.


That said if you had to convert him there might be a way to eliminate alot of the issues you have and perserve the bulk of the model.  To handle the width issue you might be able to shorten the model.  As each arm is seperate you could grind away at the upper shoulder are and redo the edge of the kimono and attach his arms there.  That will close in the shoulders and make his torso not look as wide.  To handle the lower half of the body and the gut you can cut him in half at the waist *Ie all that split stomach*.  After that split the legs into two parts and grind down the area between them to shorten the hip.  After reattaching you can then build the kimono around or your own stomach to fill that gap.  Be a bit of greenstuff work to get the kimono right and make sure it lines up but you could likely cut a signifigant amount of his bulk out while perserving alot of the model.  If where willing to put in the effort you could likely get around your problems with the model and still have him good enough to use in offical events *and he would be noticable altered so you have a fine converted model for some of the achievement league stuff that goes on*

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i don't know if I'm a strong enough sculptor to really make that a thing... lol. I like the idea of cleaning out the eye and making it a socket, however. And maybe doing a new kimono could do it by itself... Well..... maybe...


Maybe this will be my project.... While I wait for Komainu to come out...


Void. You got me.



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Yeah, i think I'm gonna go for an eyepatch (take out the eye), Maybe give him some green stuff eyebrows for more aggresive expression. I also want to trim and greenstuff the arms together so he's actually menacing with the sword. It'll take a while, and I'll want to take my time with it. Maybe enough time to actually wait for the Komainu box, instead of getting spendy proxies. :P

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