A discussion on what the Neverborn are.(fluff)

[Brence]

So I know this topic popped up more then once on this forum but with the Through the Breach RPG, books and Wyrd Chronicles I'd love to see what we know and theorize about the Neverborn as a race or whatever

So let me kick off with what I piece together:

At some point in the history of ... (We only know the city is called Malifaux, the plane/land itself remains unnamed) there lived Lesser and Greater Gods who became tyranical and mad with hubris and power. So the Gods warred upon each other and madness, plague, death etc all where unleashed upon their world as these deities waged there war.

After all was over and the Tyrants where "defeated" the remnants of this world wrecked with madness and twisted by the post apocalyptic world they where lett with regrouped into feral tribes.

After the breach reopens though the Neverborn (collectively as a race) started to war on the humans as they are not tied to the fate and rules of their world and as such have the capacity to either unleash or forever banish the Tyrants.

Thats just my collected wisdom added with my theories. So what are you guys theories?

[Parker Barrows]

From my understanding, the Tyrants were part of the Neverborn race. They became gods.

 

Also, I believe the there is Neverborn supplement coming out for Through the Breach, so we'll hopefully get a lot of answers then.

[Brence]

Well reading the TTB books they are talking about lesser and greater gods, seeing though that for instance Tuco has been "changed" as well as Zoraida I believe that they are twisted by the fallout that still marks their world after this god war.

[Carasz]

From reading the Malifaux books I came to understand that the neverborn and the tyrants had separate origins. I even think I read something that said the neverborn weren't native to Malifaux, just as the humans aren't. But this was a while ago, so I might be misremembering.

Is the story in TTB different?

[Lynch]

Yesterday i was reading the malifaux book 1. There is a history where the doplegganger victoria explains the true viktoria who were the tyrants:

 

"There was a time when this world was full of clever
people. Malifaux was home to a huge population
and as a people, they were intelligent and
resourceful. Their mastery of magic and technology
brought about an age without sickness or suffering.
With such knowledge, their lives extended to a point
where each person was practically immortal, giving
each the time to indulge their curiosity into ever
more mysterious interests.
"Even amongst such a powerful and knowledgeable
culture, there were those that shined ever brighter.
These gifted few possessed a genius that could
realize any dream. With such singular insight and the
immortality to pursue any cause, these few grew
more capable and their interests more perverse. ln
their decadence, the gift of their genius became a
plague upon their fellows. Each of these powerful
individuals inflicted their bizarre appetites on this
world's population. They subjected the people of
this world to cruel experiments and depravity, and
decay, illness, and pain abounded once again...."

 

Pag 161 of the old rulebook.

 

Then the doppleganger explains how the neverborn fought against the tyrants, that were before part of them, and when they lose the war they created the necromancy to defeat the powerful tyrants. But only the material form of the immortal tyrants was destroyed and the price that they payed was so expensive, they neverborn devastated their own world and furthermore they let the death (viewed as the entropy) position is their plane.

 

Finally it was explained how the tyrants are still errant and powerfull spirits that need a host for manifest, like Rasputina or the dreamer. The neverborn like Lilith, Pandora or Zoraida want to defeat the tyrants in order to punish and make them pay for his old crimes agains their kind.

 

I think that is a interesting plot, close to the cosmic entities for the lovecraft mythos.

[Brence]

The TTB story hasn't changed no, it just describes the world from the view of a death sentenced scholar. Hence the "gods" reference. A human civilisation able to overcome illness and death would qualify as "Gods" to the eyes of earthside humanity.

So the Neverborn, or to specify, Lilith, Pandora and Nekhima (I butchered her name didnt I? *to lazy to look up*) are remnants of this former civilisation. High end (although twisted) mages so to speak that changed their appearance to fit with earthside mythology and drive earthside humanity from Malifaux. As they are probable conduits to the Tyrants.

Just wonder about Zoraida's story, she came from earthside waaay back as I understand.

[Vorschlag]

I had thought all avatars would eventually be revealed as tyrants as though all the main characters are being manipulated into a final battle, hence the whole horseman thing.

 

Thus the the persona and strength of spirit possessed by each individual is all that prevents the tyrant from taking over, so far we know that Hamlin lost that battle, so did Crid though she's been given a second chance where as Seamus seems to have been most successful apart from Rasputina. 

[Piranhamoose]

The TTB story hasn't changed no, it just describes the world from the view of a death sentenced scholar. Hence the "gods" reference. A human civilisation able to overcome illness and death would qualify as "Gods" to the eyes of earthside humanity.

So the Neverborn, or to specify, Lilith, Pandora and Nekhima (I butchered her name didnt I? *to lazy to look up*) are remnants of this former civilisation. High end (although twisted) mages so to speak that changed their appearance to fit with earthside mythology and drive earthside humanity from Malifaux. As they are probable conduits to the Tyrants.

Just wonder about Zoraida's story, she came from earthside waaay back as I understand.

 

The neverborn didn't choose their new appearances.  The form of the neverborn was inflicted upon them by the cataclysm.  The common theory is that earth's mythology is inspired by the creatures of Malifaux and not vice versa.  Zoraida made a deal with the Neverborn for power, and that's why she helps them, as far as I'm aware.

[Brence]

That might also be the case, humanity peeking through the veil and taken their inspiration for myth from another dimension.

[Dracomax]

The neverborn didn't choose their new appearances.  The form of the neverborn was inflicted upon them by the cataclysm.  The common theory is that earth's mythology is inspired by the creatures of Malifaux and not vice versa.  Zoraida made a deal with the Neverborn for power, and that's why she helps them, as far as I'm aware.

Not all of them. If I recall correctly, a big deal was made of Ama No Zuko not being neverborn, but being something from earth itself.

[Brence]

Interesting! Maybe something that came through the breach to earth? Who ever said it wouldnt go the other way around?

[Lynch]

Most of the tyrants are immune to neverborn weapons, this is the reason becasuse they plot to atract victoria and the masamune to the other side.

[Brence]

I believe though the Avatars arent all Tyrant Manifestations, maybe they become tyrants themselves though slightly?

[Bengt]

Only Raspy's and Sonnia's avatars have the Tyrant characteristic in latest avatar beta (and Hamelin's and Shenlong's since they always have it).

[LordZombie]

From what I remember, there are already mythical creatures Earthside. The ten thunder have dragons and oni already. Ama No Zako should not be neverborn, she came with the ten thunder.

[Brence]

Well with the magic flying around earthside I wouldnt be surprised either .

Interesting! Just like the bit in M2E saying that the Neverborn actually tap into the "primodial" magic of Malifaux instead of the more surfaced magic from the Arcanists.

[edonil]

There's also the interesting question to account for things like the Slate Ridge Mauler or the Sabretooth that are not Neverborn but obviously Malifaux native.

[Brence]

Well I think Those are just animals warped by magic? Or is that to easy?

[Brence]

Well I think Those are just animals warped by magic? Or is that to easy?

[edonil]

That's one possibility, but the fluff doesn't say either way beyond the fact that they were there before the 2nd Breach.

[Brence]

Yeah, as far as i know from TTB everything native to Malifaux is "neverborn" although the definition is mostly used for the sentient Neverborn.

[Piranhamoose]

Not all of them. If I recall correctly, a big deal was made of Ama No Zuko not being neverborn, but being something from earth itself.

 

I was referring specifically to the Nephlim and Woes.  I could have been more specific, however.  Ama No Zuko wandered into Malifaux from Earth.  We don't know if the Oni originated on Earth as a species or if the went to Earth from Malifaux or elsewhere.  From bits of fluff I've heard, Shenlong spent quite awhile on Earth before returning to Malifaux.  It's possible that the Oni were created via magic of Malifaux.  Regardless, the fluff did say that magic existed on Earth before the first opening of the breach, so anything is possible at this point, until explicitly stated by Wyrd.

[Dracomax]

I should probably have been more specific, in that when I said, not all of them, I was referring to the idea that all the monsters of myth/legend came from visions/creatures of Malifaux. There is plenty to suggest that, while much more rare, Earth does have its share of monsters that may have nothing to do with Malifaux or the breach.