Dreamer or Collodi?

[Shimian]

Hey guys,

I am currently trying to decide whether I should buy the Dreamer or the Collodi box. Now I got some questions:

1. Which one is more newbie-friendly?

2. Which one has more different play styles?

3. Which one is in general considered to be stronger?

4. Are both of them playable out of the box?

5. What models do I need next for both boxes?

Would be great if you guys could give me some information

[Adran]

Newbie Friendly, hmm, neither are what I would call extremely straight forward, but neither is hugely complicated.

 

Both masters have 2 limited upgrades which lead to 2 different basic playstyles (although they have a lot more than that whe you start refining them)

If you are planning on summoning with the dreamer, then it helps to own  quite a few extra models (Lelu, Lilitu, Coppelius, Alps, Insidious madness, stiched together spring to mind). He can always summon Alps and daydreams so ownign them is pretty important.

One of Collodis limeted upgrades works very well with the effergies, and whilst you don't need to own all 7, its worth looking at at least 3 or 4.

 

I don't think we understand the game well enough at this point to say one is stronger than the other. Balance in M2E is pretty good, and you have abpout equal cahnce of winnign with both. You might find that Dreamer is better at some missions than collodi, but Collodi will be better at others.

 

Both are currently on the old metal boxes. This means that the Dreamer box has no Daydreams, which are pretty vital to his play style. Collodi has got his marionettes in the box, but not much else.

So currrenlty I would say you would struggle playing them out of the box.

 

 

Dreamer -

Needs 1 pack of Daydreams ( I know this is the third time I've said this. They are that good for him. )

I'd strongly recomend Alps, Stiched together, Insidous madness and lelu and lilitu, as they are the summonable models from his card and upgrades.

Other common models usd with him include Widow weaver, Teddy, Wicked dolls, and Tannan

 

Collodi

Needs lots of stuff just to make it up to a decent sized list.

Strongly recomend buying at least 4 effigies, personal taste here, but I woudl think Brutal and Arcane are well worthowning.

Stciched together and widow weaver are certainly considerations, as are wicked dolls. My local collodi player is havin a lot of fun with Lazarus

He has less Obviously vita models than the dreamer, so leads to more personalisation, and less clear recomendations

[Hateful Darkblack]

Another resource recommendation: PullMyFinger has articles for The Dreamer and Collodi.

 

1. Which one is more newbie-friendly? 

 

Both are about medium newbie-friendly. I think Collodi gets a little more high-power the first time you play him because his scary triggers are pretty clear how to use.

2. Which one has more different play styles?

 

The Dreamer has more options for play styles.

 

Collodi is a controller, with some team-buffing and a little bit of summoning on the side.

 

Dreamer is a lot of things depending on which Limited Upgrade you take and how you manage your Waking condition: he can be a massively top-notch summoner, or a melee beatstick, or a crew-buffer and enemy-debuffer, or even a decent ranged attacker.

3. Which one is in general considered to be stronger?

 

This is in dispute. Personally I think Collodi is a little stronger, but a lot of really smart players seem to favor The Dreamer.

4. Are both of them playable out of the box?

 

Mostly. The Dreamer will miss his Daydreams and things to Summon, but he's still playable. Collodi will do okay, but will benefit from a little more expansion.

5. What models do I need next for both boxes? 

 

Dreamer: Daydreams for sure. A few other Nightmares would be good: Stitched Together, maybe Widow Weaver, maybe Lelu and Lilitu, maybe a Teddy. Coppelius seems good too.

Collodi: Some more Puppets. Stitched Together are great for him. Effigies, especially Arcane, Hodgepodge, and Brutal. A Coryphee is good. Widow Weaver is really great with Collodi (and if you take her, you may want to buy a Teddy for her to Summon). A proxy for Vasilisa would be nice (the model is not released yet as of July 2014, sadly.) Strong non-Puppet Minions are helpful too: The Illuminated or even some Silurid might be nice.

[Mason]

The Dreamer box comes with the Dreamer and Lord Chompy Bits, Coppelius, and two Stitched Together, which is a pretty decent start for his crew.  As mentioned above, you'll want some Daydreams and probably some Alps as well. 

 

Collodi's box comes with four Marionettes and three Wicked Dolls, but you'll definitely want to branch out into a few stronger models pretty soon, as the little dolls aren't exactly melee power houses. 

[Thaarup]

Something to add to all the other good information you already got is the starterboxes.

As of time of writing Wyrd don´t intent to sell henchmen in boxes of their own, so if you want to get Vassilisa You will have to wait until such a time when that starter box is released, otherwise you will have to proxy her/it.

 

I don´t think that is currently a problem with the Dreamer box? 

[Shimian]

I read that Collodi can hire Coryphees, but not the Coryphee Duet. Why is that so? Can't I hire two Coryphees, since they are puppets, and merge them into a duet?

 

And can I use more than one Effigy? They are all Rare 1, but since the names are different...

[Hateful Darkblack]

The Coryphee's Dance Together ability notes that it can only be used if the Coryphee is in an Arcanist Crew.

 

Yes, the Effigies are considered totally separate models. Collodi can hire multiples of them.

[Mason]

Yes, the Effigies are considered totally separate models. Collodi can hire multiples of them.

 

Or rather, you can have one of each Effigy, so you can take the Arcane Effigy and Brutal Effigy, but you wouldn't be able to take two Brutal Effigies (because they're Rare 1). 

[StaticVortex]

My Dreamer bias is exposed in a question like this.

 

I feel Dreamer will offer you more options overall from his starter box to a full model collection.  Like others have said, get Daydreams...he has to have them.  From his starter, you'll have Coppelius..give him the On Dreaming Wings upgrade, and he makes a very nice tactical assassin; and with a few eyes, he has quite a bit of staying power.  Stitched Togethers are quite nice with their Gamble, and not bad at objective running.  Of course, you can always wake up to unleash a Chompy beating on someone.

 

As for additional models:

Insidious Madness is an excellent objective runner and can assist with WP shenanigans.  

The twins: Lelu & Lilitu.  Great at healing, tying up, and can do some objective duty if needed.  In a summoner role, I never hire Lelu...I will hire Lilitu from time to time, almost always accompanied by Baby Kade.

Widow Weaver can assist your WP shenanigans and summon a Teddy, so long as your opponent drops enough markers.

Teddy makes a good beater

Baby Kade is good on his own with lure and pounce...does some movement shenanigans with Teddy, and loves company when things are pushed into him.

Alps are wonderful as a tarpit..can be summoned by Dreamer or Coppelius.

[Mister Shine]

Basically, do you want a controller that can do single target buffs on anyone and turn into a big monster to beat on enemies or do you want a controller that buffs everyone (as long as they are a minion or puppet) and makes the enemy beat on itself

 

I'm a bigger fan of Collodi myself. I like my opponents fearing 3SS piles of sticks more than they do Nekima.

[Shimian]

Concerning the Hodhepodge Effigy: Can my opponent draw LoS through the Ht 3 soft cover provided by the tactical action of this model? Or does it provide only the - on his duel?

[Parker Barrows]

I think it should* to note that Collodi got a Henchmen when he got upgraded for ME 2.0. His plastic box will likely have a model that will not appear anywhere else.

 

*I just gave a brief run though. I didn't see anyone mention this.

[Hateful Darkblack]

Shimian, good question. Hodgepodge's   gives soft cover, but not blocking. Just soft cover. You can see through it just fine. It only provides the  .

[Rathnard]

So first off, you might be interested in the blog posts I've made on both Dreamer and Collodi;

http://rathnard.blogspot.com.au/2014/04/restless-dreams-of-pain-dreamer.html

http://rathnard.blogspot.com.au/2014/05/catchup-week-collodi.html

 

Both masters have some degree of complexity that'll take getting used to (like many Masters, really) but I'd argue that Collodi is the more complex master to use than Dreamer. Collodi relies on alot of overlapping auras and keeping track of the multiple conditions he tends to spread around his crew. There is ALOT of cross-model interaction and keeping track of it can get a bit overwhelming IMO. Not to mention that with multiple cheap effigies plus all the other cheap dolls you'll be trying to learn alot of different model types in one go. 

 

Dreamer, on the other hand, has the Waking condition and the summoning of Lord Chompy Bits to get used to, but it's really not that hard once you see it play out on the table. With the summoning upgrade you might need a large pool of Nightmares, but if you're startying out you could just take Restless Dreams instead and leave the summoning for another time.

[asrian]

Hey Tath, for a summoning Dreamer ( and Tannen / Widow Weaver) How many Teddies should I look at owning? I have the plastic one and plan to pick up the pewtet one as I prefer that model. Just curious on if you ever typically saw more than 2 out at one time.

[Rathnard]

Hey Tath, for a summoning Dreamer ( and Tannen / Widow Weaver) How many Teddies should I look at owning? I have the plastic one and plan to pick up the pewtet one as I prefer that model. Just curious on if you ever typically saw more than 2 out at one time.

 

I'm guessing you're referring to me?

 

I haven't tried the summoning side of Dreamer but I know I guy who has. Judging from his experience Tannen will generally give you a chance to summon one Teddy per game at most (you rarely get a 13 Masks or a Red Joker on hand to successfully bring one out). The same goes for the Widow Weaver (4 scrap/corpses is alot when your crew is full of non-living, non-undead nightmares) so if you're taking both the Weaver and Tannen and are really setting out to summon Teddies, you'll probably need two on hand at most.

[Durza]

I'd say if cost isn't an issue, add one or two to that for those games where you luck out.

[dafruk]

Hey guys,

I am currently trying to decide whether I should buy the Dreamer or the Collodi box. Now I got some questions:

Would be great if you guys could give me some information

 

Why limit yourself, just get both!

[Myth]

Rathnard, on 06 Jul 2014 - 06:53 AM, said:

I'm guessing you're referring to me?

 

I haven't tried the summoning side of Dreamer but I know I guy who has. Judging from his experience Tannen will generally give you a chance to summon one Teddy per game at most (you rarely get a 13 Masks or a Red Joker on hand to successfully bring one out). The same goes for the Widow Weaver (4 scrap/corpses is alot when your crew is full of non-living, non-undead nightmares) so if you're taking both the Weaver and Tannen and are really setting out to summon Teddies, you'll probably need two on hand at most.

 

Yeah, I've been trying to run a Dreamer list focused on summoning Stitched Together (who, when killed, provide scrap for Teddy), and I still don't think I've ever ended up with the ability to get more than one Teddy on the board. So its a possibility, but not a very high one, even if you are working on it.