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Returning to Miasaki ME2, mixed feelings.

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Hello! I brought out my ten thunders for Me2. I usually play ressers but have dabble in Thunders in Me1.5 and beta. My great fondness for Miasaki and her flexibility in taking on various schemes are what drives my hand in picking Thunders!

 

The 50SS list is pretty much her box sett, 1 ten thunders archers and Yamaziko. This is the point were things go south for me. I feel that my 3 Torokage an Ottoto never really do any thing( particulary Ottoto) . They are usually the victim of spells our lead poisoning around turn 3, in 4 games the 3 torokage have killed: 1 mechanical pigeon, 1 ronin. Ottoto have killed a ronin.

 

The Torokage have saved me a game by dropping a lot of scheme markers for a line in the sand game 3, even though any non peon would do the trick.

I try playing them as some sort of flank killer is that a tactic which they are not suited for?The Torokages stats makes them excellent killers on paper but I feel they lack any movement ability to make them actual ninjas instead of well trained goons in pjs.

 

Pleas do any of you fine gentlemen have a good suggestion for the use of Torokage and Ottoto in a Miasaki list?

 

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Torakage are just plain amazing. They are incredibly flexible in their roles. With a statline of 6's they are above average across the board, they are fast with a Wk of 6 and cannot be held in combat by disengaging strikes. They are great at movement or marker based schemes and they are certainly so slouch when putting out damage, they tend to be a little fragile but their Df and Wp 6 makes up for the lack of any armour etc. I run them on their own up the flanks or give them a support model like an Oiran to give them the One with the Crowd bonus, then when something needs to die I leave the Oiran behind and left them get killing. 

 

Ototo is too slow for my liking though he is tough and hits like a freight train. I used to use him all the time but to be honest there are much better Henchmen for Misaki, the rest of the crew tend to be much faster than he is and they leave him in their dust. I tend to use Toshiro & Sidir the most with her as 10T, Toshiro is fairly fast and can buff the rest of your minions fairly easily, he can also summon Ashigaru or Komainu to replenish your crew if stuff starts dying. Sidir can be an incredibly tough bodyguard for Misaki, he also lays down some serious firepower which Misaki's themed crews often lack, it's also much more reliable than Archers who are over priced at 7ss. Fuhatsu could also be a fine choice but I've never used him. Yamaziko isn't worth it in my opinion, she has rarely achieved anything when I've played against her. 

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Sensei Yu can be useful for stealing Stalk(0) off Misaki with her upgrade or Kang for putting the beat down on Ressers/Constructs with ignoring HtW and Armor on any model who can LoS to him.

 

I wouldn't take 3 Torakage very often but find Samurai very handy especially with (still beta) 0SS upgrades for ignoring damage or faster.

 

D.

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Torakage are just plain amazing. They are incredibly flexible in their roles. With a statline of 6's they are above average across the board, they are fast with a Wk of 6 and cannot be held in combat by disengaging strikes. They are great at movement or marker based schemes and they are certainly so slouch when putting out damage, they tend to be a little fragile but their Df and Wp 6 makes up for the lack of any armour etc. I run them on their own up the flanks or give them a support model like an Oiran to give them the One with the Crowd bonus, then when something needs to die I leave the Oiran behind and left them get killing. 

 

Ototo is too slow for my liking though he is tough and hits like a freight train. I used to use him all the time but to be honest there are much better Henchmen for Misaki, the rest of the crew tend to be much faster than he is and they leave him in their dust. I tend to use Toshiro & Sidir the most with her as 10T, Toshiro is fairly fast and can buff the rest of your minions fairly easily, he can also summon Ashigaru or Komainu to replenish your crew if stuff starts dying. Sidir can be an incredibly tough bodyguard for Misaki, he also lays down some serious firepower which Misaki's themed crews often lack, it's also much more reliable than Archers who are over priced at 7ss. Fuhatsu could also be a fine choice but I've never used him. Yamaziko isn't worth it in my opinion, she has rarely achieved anything when I've played against her. 

Thanks for the reply!

Yes the Torokages stas are amazing! They just haven't worked for me in Me2 yet.

This comes down to 2 things 1: they need to charge through impiding terrain( IE a failed charge)2: I cant hit what I am striking at. To elaborate about point 2, they have a MI:5 with a + which means as soon as a defence 6 model gets in there way I will miss it. The flip will go down some ting like this: I flipp for attack drawing a 10! Sweeet money shot! Opponent draws a draws a 11. Dam! I need to cheat in my 13 in my hand to hit him. Which I do, opponent counter cheats with his 13 and nothing happens.

Anecdotal evidence for sure but I don't really feel there killyness as of right now.

 

My 3 regular opponents are guild( IE Riflemen and Austringer), Showgirls and Vics. I have a hard time fighting any of these gentlemen's forces with The Torokage, Guild kills me dead from 14-18 away which I harsh specially if one is playing turf war. Showgirls have a million models+rules generally I just have a hard time fighting them in any scenario that is not reckoning^^

Vics simply outfights me, dam dirty ronins^^!

 

It is kinda sad that my crews unique models apparently got worse between editions. Ototto can be pretty good in scheme were you have to guard something I guess.

 

I do not have any more ten thunders models, wanted a kind of malifaux version of big trouble in little china whit ninjas doing cool stuff. Guess there is a need to buy some models I dont really want then( except fro Sidir he is awesome

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Sensei Yu can be useful for stealing Stalk(0) off Misaki with her upgrade or Kang for putting the beat down on Ressers/Constructs with ignoring HtW and Armor on any model who can LoS to him.

 

I wouldn't take 3 Torakage very often but find Samurai very handy especially with (still beta) 0SS upgrades for ignoring damage or faster.

 

D.

Yes I would love to take Yu and are giddy like a small child for the release of the samurai!^^ I do not like to proxy stuff and play with unpainted things. Tottaly getting the Fuhatsu, seams fun^^

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Have you looked at tthe smoke and shadows upgrade? It adds some potential for nifty movement tricks from the Torkage.

 

Also to say, if  guild is able to consistantly kill you from 18" away in a turf war game, you are probbaly not playing enough terrain on the board. If yu're facign shooting, they can use the face in the crowd ability, makign them harder to ht with Sh attacks (if your opponet has that -to attack, he can't cheat as well as using the worst card he flipped.).

Just stand 2 of them next to each other and its hard for austringers and riflemen to do anything to them.  

 

And finally, you don't always need to hit. Sometimes just acept you miss and try again. Ml 5 is pretty good. Df 6 is very rare, so maybe they aren't the best to hit the high Df enemy, but most of the models in the game will have a lower defense than your Ml, so you should often hit.

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Have you looked at tthe smoke and shadows upgrade? It adds some potential for nifty movement tricks from the Torkage.

 

Also to say, if  guild is able to consistantly kill you from 18" away in a turf war game, you are probbaly not playing enough terrain on the board. If yu're facign shooting, they can use the face in the crowd ability, makign them harder to ht with Sh attacks (if your opponet has that -to attack, he can't cheat as well as using the worst card he flipped.).

Just stand 2 of them next to each other and its hard for austringers and riflemen to do anything to them.  

 

And finally, you don't always need to hit. Sometimes just acept you miss and try again. Ml 5 is pretty good. Df 6 is very rare, so maybe they aren't the best to hit the high Df enemy, but most of the models in the game will have a lower defense than your Ml, so you should often hit.

The smoke upgrade is a good option, if it actually blocks los then( cant remember if it does) it would mitigate the gun line a bit

 

18 treat comes from the austringers  focus attack that are not a shooting attack so no face in the crowd ability unfortunately they also ignore terrain and do not require lols. On average 2 of them kill a single medium wound model a round with impunity.

The guild riflemen are there to block a lane between the los blocking terrain which becomes a complete kill zone. With Captain Dashel they get to focus as 0 action and they keep there focus thanks to hold. Via firing lane they get an amazing dmg potential with a minimum of 4 dmg for the last Riflemen. That is pretty scary and demoralizing to face.

 

We play on about a 60-70% terrain coverage it is jut hard to not get hit by stuff with so much focus, even If I am in soft cover he still get a + flip to hit and ++ to dmg.

That is not to say they are unbeatable, quite the opposite but it is a dam boring thing to face unless you have the tools to counter it.

You are indeed correct sometimes one simply have to accept amiss ^^.

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Face in the crowd requires the attack to use Sh. Austringers birds use Sh. Its not based on the gun icon its based on the name of the stat.

 And if they focus it also gains the gun icon (so can't be used if they are engaged, will randomise if the target is engaged etc.but still ignores line of sight and cover).

So they can spend 2 AP to have a good chance (7 vs 6) of hitting on a low damage attack. the focus probably means they get to cheat, but even so, they only have so many severe cards to use.

Does sound like you have enough terrain, but its a good answer to most complaints about shooting being too strong.

 

Also try and engaged his models in the turf area, after all he needs 2 as well, or he doesn't score. The 12" move the Torkage have, means that they have a decent chance of reaching what ever models he gets into the area from safety, and if he shoots, then he may well hit himself. Sure, he'll probably not hurt himself very much, but already gives you a 50% chance of his attack missing. This won't work for the close Austringers as long as they don't focus, but then they are on _ to hit and probably only doing weak damage

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Personally, I am not a big fan of taking Misaki's box with Misaki.  I like to add stuff like Rail Workers and Illuminated to her options as they are models with endurance.  Two Austringers focusing and firing at an Illuminated would need two Severe damage and one with a critical strike to kill it in one turn.  Even if they do two 4 damage with two hits, he will have 1wd left and if he can activate heal 2-4 pretty easily, or he can activate between the two Austringers and heal up just to be safe.  Rail workers are much the same if you can get a Tome for defense on the first hit *even a low one*.  It turns an Austringer's damage spread into 1/1/1 with out critical strike.  Even with a Critical strike it would be a 1/1/2.  With just that one Tome you could make it hard for him to drop the Rail Worker in a turn.

 

It seems like your opponent is focusing on alot of range with the Guild, two Austringers, One Rifleman, and Dashel alone rack up 26ss cost.  That is half his stones.  Even just one more Rifleman and he is up to 31ss.  What has he been taking for a melee element or has he been trusting in just his range advantage?  Also as a side note, the Minimum damage for Rifleman after all their tricks is 3 unless they also get a Ram to hit, so there is a good chance he will either have to save his high rams for them or just settle for 3 damage weaks.

 

As for the Vics, it really comes down to in my opinion figuring out how to deal with the Death.  If you can outrange it and force it to you, Great, if you cannot then you need to figure out a way to work into combat with out giving them to much to sink their teeth into.  More details on generally how the games have gone down would be nice.

 

As for showgirls, they are trick.  Really they are a matter of getting use to their rules and knowing how they can play.  Once you grasp how their little engine works you can start to grasp on where you need to Target and what needs to be taken out where.

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Have you tried keeping the Torakage back a bit while sending Misaki after the Austringers?  With Scramble she's very fast and doesn't care about Severe terrain, and Bulletproof should help a bit with shrugging off some of the Austringer damage. 

 

Or, if you take Smoke and Shadows, you can run Misaki all the way forward, then at the end of the turn unbury the Torakage ahead of her, which should let you quickly close the range into melee with the shooting models.  

 

In any case, let us know how your games go.  :)

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