Why no stat cards?!

[Baalbamoth]

Is there any good reason why stat cards are not available online or on wikis?

[NoHero]

Stats for what exactly? Models? Wave 2 models are in the download section. Wave 1 are in the boxes with the models and they have arsenal decks (which has all the cards in Wave 1) for each faction.

[Baalbamoth]

I cant download anything at work, and I would really like to be able to see stat cards when I read pull my finger rather than read descriptions of abilities without stat cards.

 

Do I really have to buy all the arsenal decks, or additional books to be able to see opponent's stats?

 

That's nuts, reminds me of something G.W. would do...  I really think these should be up and online on dedicated wiki pages to anyone who wants to read them, heck it would motivate me to buy models as I would know what a new model could do in my crew rather than spend money on stuff I'm really not interested in just to see what they can do. 

[11th Thunder]

All the wave 1 models are in the main rulebook. All the wave 2 models are free online. I genuinely don't see the problem.

[Scorpion0x17]

Some of the discussion over in the Malifaux App thread seems to indicate that Wyrd does not want this information available online/digitally (aside from the Wave 2 PDFs).

Which, if true, is, I think, a shame - something I think would be a great resource (and which I started to consider doing myself) would be an online database of all the stats, so one could, say, find all 4ss models with a Wk of 5 or more, or all models with the Mercenary characteristic, for example.

Would really help with crew construction.

[Baalbamoth]

Heck yes it would! or all the models available to a master that have reactivate etc... man that needs to be available! 

 

And I don't have a "main rule book" when I got into this my buddy was telling me I only needed to get the reference rule book, now to really play the game and get more models I find out I need to shell out more cash for a book I didn't know was needed? 90% of which I really don't need?  

 

Yes, that's a problem! I like the companies that make the games I play to make money, I don't like the companies of the games I play to rip me off for stuff that should be free... like having to pay extra money to know the stats of the models I want to buy before I buy them. 

[Thaarup]

...

And I don't have a "main rule book" when I got into this my buddy was telling me I only needed to get the reference rule book, now to really play the game and get more models I find out I need to shell out more cash for a book I didn't know was needed? 90% of which I really don't need?  

 

Hmm, seems you should have a talk with you friend then as he clearly didn´t explain it to a satisfying degree

 

There is a Rulebook and within it is the rules, stats of the different faction models (with a short introduction text) of all wave 1 and fluff. Because some gamers wanted to have a short reference book to carry around, the "reference rule book" or "pocket rulebook" was made. It is just a small manual with the rules and nothing else.

..so in your case I think you went with the wrong book. What it sounds like what you want(ed) is the Rulebook or "The Main Rulebook". 

 

 

 

Yes, that's a problem! I like the companies that make the games I play to make money, I don't like the companies of the games I play to rip me off for stuff that should be free... like having to pay extra money to know the stats of the models I want to buy before I buy them. 

 

If you already own a copy of The Rulebook you allready have access to all wave 1 model stats and all wave 2 models stats are in the download section. It is not really Wyrds fault that you can´t download from work?

[J_D]

So you want all the model rules for free, and then there is nothing to stop you proxying or using models from another range so Wyrd make no money from you at all?

I haven't seen a game company yet that gives you all the rules for all of their stuff for free, and any that did would probably go out of business pretty quick

[Deggiera]

i also don't see the issue at all, unlike gw you can get the main rule book, fate deck, arsnal box and enough models to expand to the max points value of the game for around £100.

 

i think they are more than reasonable!

 

Also unlike other games, the Wyrd team follows the forums, so they will have to read your unscrupulous baseless bashing of their product. sorry man the issue is your own. mistakes where made, but you shouldn't lash out at the company.

[r4st4f4n]

Heck yes it would! or all the models available to a master that have reactivate etc... man that needs to be available! 

 

And I don't have a "main rule book" when I got into this my buddy was telling me I only needed to get the reference rule book, now to really play the game and get more models I find out I need to shell out more cash for a book I didn't know was needed? 90% of which I really don't need?  

 

Yes, that's a problem! I like the companies that make the games I play to make money, I don't like the companies of the games I play to rip me off for stuff that should be free... like having to pay extra money to know the stats of the models I want to buy before I buy them. 

No offense intended, but that's your specific problem, not a real issue...

Wyrd isn't the company that wants you to pay extra money, IN FACT they did two versions of the manual: one for the ones like you, who want to see all the cards. And one, cheaper, for the ones who don't.

I can't really see anything sneaky, nor hidden, here. Your friend spoke the truth, the mini rulebook is all you need to play. You want more? You've the option to have more.

And I wouldn't actually compare to the 10s of cycling renewable codex-es you'd need, to see all stats of a GW game

[Inquisitor Wall]

If you are at the point where you need to know all of the stats for every model, then you are clearly more invested into the game then just "what do I need to get started" phase of the game. I think it is extremely reasonable for a company to not give away all of their rules and stats for a game for free. The arsenal decks are a good way to get your faction, and the wave 2 files were a great hold over. I am fully expecting the wave 2 files to be taken down when the new book/decks are released.

[Deggiera]

The fact you have offened us, the customer, with your heavy handed approach should be evidence enough that wyrd is a good company. why else would we defend it.

[Baalbamoth]

To Thaarup-

 

1. As stated I bought the book that said "Malfaux M2e Rules Manual" shouldn't that have everything I need to play?

 

2. Why should I have to download anything? Why does my "rules manual" not have the rules and write ups for all the models in the game?

 

3) If putting all the core books up as downloadable PDF's is a bad idea, why is Pathfinder kicking D&D's ass by doing exactly that?

 

4) if making absolutely all rules and stats for the game open source is a bad idea, why does Paizo let D20pfsrd.com reprint every feat and write up ever published?

 

5) if making every book you ever published available as a downloadable PDF is a bad idea for sales, why is Eclipse Phase the highest selling Sci-Fi RPG when they do exactly that?

 

by not making this info available for free online, its my opinion Wyrd is hurting its sales, not increasing them.

[Shadowfane]

Nope, from the sound of it you bought the Rules Manual Handbook, which has exactly what it says inside it - the rules.  Nothing more, nothing less.  This isn't a rp game, it's a miniatures game, and the majority of miniautures games out there are not in the habit of putting the stats/rules for absolutely everything needed for that game into one book (or putting them out there for free, for that matter)

 

Comparing miniatures games to roleplaying games is comparing apples to fire engines, and repeatedly doing it to try and make your point is disingenuous (spelling?) at best.  If you want to try and make you point and win people over to your side, you'll have to do better than that.

[Inquisitor Wall]

Those companies do not appear to offer their products as a free download, all of their homesites have a fee to download. I certainly see the benefit of allowing people to purchase the rules etc in an electronic format, but I am willing to bet at this stage in the game Wyrd is more focused on getting their models, rules and stat cards available in the first place.

[J_D]

If you already are complaining about not getting everything for free, then this (and probably every other miniature game) is not for you and you should just quit now

[Deggiera]

@Shadowfane - Spelling is fine.

 

@OP - Tbh, im done with ya man. i think (hope) this is more you have had a bad day than any real issue with Faux. 

[Thaarup]

To Thaarup-

 

1. As stated I bought the book that said "Malfaux M2e Rules Manual" shouldn't that have everything I need to play?

 

2. Why should I have to download anything? Why does my "rules manual" not have the rules and write ups for all the models in the game?

 

3) If putting all the core books up as downloadable PDF's is a bad idea, why is Pathfinder kicking D&D's ass by doing exactly that?

 

4) if making absolutely all rules and stats for the game open source is a bad idea, why does Paizo let D20pfsrd.com reprint every feat and write up ever published?

 

5) if making every book you ever published available as a downloadable PDF is a bad idea for sales, why is Eclipse Phase the highest selling Sci-Fi RPG when they do exactly that?

 

by not making this info available for free online, its my opinion Wyrd is hurting its sales, not increasing them.

 

1. Before buying any book my advice would be to read the decription and/or ask if this is the correct book for whatever purpose you need it. I never personally go by only the title of a book as it clearly can be misinterpreted.

 

2. The reason the rulebook does not have everything included is that wave 2 rules was not written at the time. Sometimes new things are created for a game and usually this comes in a second add on book or box. At the moment this is being created for release later this year but in the main time Wyrd has made the rules available to all through download.

 

3. I don´t know anything about "The Pathfinder" system, so can´t really comment on that. But as it is clearly not the majority of games which follow the "Pathfinder" example.

 

4. Se above answer.

 

5. I don´t know the reason why Wyrd have not made a PDF version of the Rulebook. It might be on the way, who knows...they certainly did with some of the rules from 1.5 edition.

 

Well, you are allowed your opinion, just as everyone else. I don´t know the "inner workings" of the Wyrd company or the numbers or business model so I really can´t form an informed opinionn or answer on that subject.  

[Fetid Strumpet]

There are no universally free stat cards available because Wyrd made a business decision not to. The Wave 2 cards are only available because art wasn't done for all wave 2 and Wyrd didn't want people who had already bought miniatures to be prevented from playing their models for longer, waiting for the book or arsenal deck to come out at Gen Con. From my understanding, the plan is to remove the PDF of wave 2 models once the arsenal decks are available.

 

That might still be the case, or maybe the experiment will continue, as Wyrd has some data on how PDFs affect their revenue stream now, and maybe they will make a different decision. I don't fault them however if they don't make anything available free, nor will I rejoice if they do.

 

I enjoy their product, and its price seems reasonable, so as long as the quality of the wave 2 arsenal decks is equivalent to the wave 1 I have no problem buying a resser and NB deck when they come out.

[Math Mathonwy]

I haven't seen a game company yet that gives you all the rules for all of their stuff for free, and any that did would probably go out of business pretty quick

Corvus Belli have been doing Infinity since 2005 and they publish all their rules and stats for free. They've been doing it since 2005.

Taban Miniatures publish Eden in a similar way. Has been going since 2009 (same as Malifaux, in fact).

Alkemy does this as well, 1650 does it, Bushido does it.

Maybe all of these companies are about to go bankrupt?

So yeah, PP and GW don't do it but other than those it is in fact more common to give out the rules and stats for free. This is because the companies make their money from the minis and they have faith that their minis are gorgeous enough that people will buy them even when you can get the rules and could proxy them. Wyrd does gorgeous minis that people who like minis buy. Maybe there's a fraction of Malifaux players that don't care for the Wyrd minis but love the rules and buy just the cards, but I think that those are rare.

[Baalbamoth]

Shadowfane (and others) the cover on my book says "malifaux2e rules manual" it does not say "pocket reference" "rules lite version" "abridged handbook" or anything like that, there is absolutely nothing to indicate this is not the "main" rule book. On the back cover it even says "provides all the rules which you need to play malifaux second edition" which I'm finding is not necessarily the case, how can you play a miniatures game without the write ups for the miniatures?

JD had said he never heard of a game company giving away "all their stuff" for free without going out of business, transhuman games does that with every book they have published. they don't have links on their site, but the give permission to reproduce any of their products as long as their not being sold for profit, so there are many fan sites offering all of their published works as free PDF downloads. This gets more people playing their game which leads more people to want to have the printed books. I ran a 2 year EP game, combined our group spent about 400 bucks on books.

Paizo does offer all rulebooks online, and piazo is the top earning table top RPG game company in the word right now. Here's the link to the PRD

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/navigation.html

No its not common for miniatures companies to offer their rules for free, just like it wasn't common for RPGs to offer their rules for free, but as the top earning fantasy and sci-fi RPG companies have learned, it actually leads to higher sales.

[Shadowfane]

Yep. It says "Rules manual" and that's what you got in there: the rules for the game.  I'm still not seeing the problem.

[Baalbamoth]

Math- (nodding)

And why wouldent everyone want to be able to have online access to easy to use databases, apps, and stat cards? Especially if that leads to more players, higher sales and more releases?

Shadow, well for one I accidentally bought a Lazarus 1e mini yesterday, now I don't have a 2e stat card or a way to get it without paying more. I also don't have a way to gage the strength of minis I'm interested in buying without first buying a expensive book and/or arsenal deck. Money I'd rather spend on having more minis.

[Deggiera]

Most of us are happy to pay for a good product. that way they have the funds to make even better products.

 

i don't get where you picked up that sense of self entitlement, but if you refuse to listen to a word anyone says.... why bother making a post in the first place.

you need a time out on the naughty step for wasting all these good peoples time.

[Shadowfane]

Math- (nodding)

And why wouldent everyone want to be able to have online access to easy to use databases, apps, and stat cards? Especially if that leads to more players, higher sales and more releases?

Shadow, well for one I accidentally bought a Lazarus 1e mini yesterday, now I don't have a 2e stat card or a way to get it without paying more. I also don't have a way to gage the strength of minis I'm interested in buying without first buying a expensive book and/or arsenal deck. Money I'd rather spend on having more minis.

 

And? Lazarus is a wave 2 model, therefore his cards are currently downloadable, for free, presumably until they release the official arsenal decks for wave 2.

 

The fact that you can't download from work is really your own issue and not something to consider here - the fact of the matter is that for at least the present time, the example you've given IS available online, for free.