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Dreamer - High v Low cost summons

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Hi all, after both running the numbers and a number of games I have reached a conundrum, namely when using Dreams of Pain Dreamer is it better to initially hire a bunch of cheap minions (Alps, Daydreams, Madnesses, etc.) and then summon in the heavy hitters, or vice versa, start with the enforcer nightmares and then summon in the cheaper guys. 

 

For me the question arises as while the more expensive Nightmares obviously require more intensive cards to summon (which you may not have available through the course of the game), they also heal up far quicker (The Twins in particular) and thus stick around longer and you get more SS worth of models for "free" per summon. 

 

I was just wondering if anyone else thought about this when forming their crew or if people's decisions where far more based on Strat and Scheme. 

 

Thanks in advance for any thoughts

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Mostly based on strats and schemes. Also if I have the cards I will try summon everything I have turn one so that I can get my wakening down asap. Also if they come out turn 1 there will be more time to heal and more time on the board for the summoned models being more worth the points. The models are not exactly free dreams of pain is a 5pnt upgrade :P I guess after one madness on full wounds they become free  

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I find that usually if you're taking an enforcer (besides the Twins, I'll get to them later) it's because either A. It's a Teddy which, barring intense shenanigans, can't be summoned or B. You want an upgrade on them. I usually take, instead of hire, Coppelius because with his massive walk 7, giving him On Dreaming Wings makes him one of the best objective runners you'll ever use. 

Now summoning the Twins can be card intensive but with how easy they heal it's almost never beneficial, at least from my experience, to hire them. The only upgrade I'd want to take on them is giving Lilitu a hefty 4'' 3 damage threat, but they die far to easily if focused for it to ever be helpful: It'll fall off too quick. 

Depending of schemes, of course, I usually take a Teddy, 2-3 Daydreams (For instant masks for summoning and for pushes to get Teddy and other threats where they want to be), Coppelius with On Dreaming Wings, and everything else is to taste. Assassinate in the pool against Perdita? Might want to take a Stitched Together and a Daydream to make sure they keep up with the fast Dreamer to shove attacks on. Lots of minions or scrap/corpses flying around? Consider the Weaver Widow and her ability to bring her own Teddy. 

The important thing, though, is that I've never found it necessary to bring the twins to the party; call them after it starts. I've had a game against 'Dita where Lelu ran around doing other things, and Lilitu literally died 5 turns out of 5. She accomplished a hellovalot being dead every turn. 

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Thanks for the thoughts guys :) 

 

Tannen is an interesting choice as (for me at least) he is one of the very few non-Nightmare models I'd consider taking with Dreamer (though mainly for the utility of +2 to Masks and Chatty not Teddy specifically) and as such comes with the burden of having to be hired. 

 

Ari just about summed up everything I'd originally thought, looks like I over thought the whole thing :P

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Chatty is interesting but be wary with Tannen. His Wk 4 and non-Nightmare status means he can't get Wings for being near someone with the upgrade and can't be pushed around by the Daydreams. He'll fall behind quickly or, worse, make you slow your own movements down to let him keep up. 

I'm not saying you can't find ways to use him or situations where he'll be good, but in a lot of cases it just isn't worth it. He's too slow.

I'm glad I could help, though~ ^^

Edit: Also, I know you can summon a Teddy. I did say "barring shenanigans." Taking Tannen, keeping him within range of the Dreamer, nabbing one of the two cards that he needs to get it to work and, the secret difficulty, having a high enough second card to insure his Leave It To Luck goes off  definitely counts as shenanigans to me. :I

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You need an UN suited 8 for leave it to luck. Moving 8" and having a 6" aura is not to difficult to keep. Near. Dreamer summoning things won't be walking to much anyways. So all it really needs is 2/54 cards and an 8+. And since its the mask you need anyways no need to sac a day dream or stone. And Mr. Tananenana can do objectives just fine. Protect territory. Power ritual. Cane hold a quarter down for reconnoiter. And gives you the odd chance to poop out a teddy. Seems legit to! E.

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Lies you can summon teddy with the dreamer it just takes set up and 2 of 54 cards in the deck.

Wow! I've been searching for a way to summon a teddy with the dreamer but it is my understanding that he can't without somehow gettin a bonus to his casting...

How do you do it?

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