Lucius as Neverborn

[zFiend]

Haven't seen that many topics on Lucius as Neverborn. Do you play him as a Neverborn? I have been looking at Lucius a lot during the beta and now that he's final he seems to have a lot of nice shenanigans. I think I'll try him out in Vassal at some point but would be interested to know how are you using him?

 

I haven't been able to figure out much what to do with him other than maybe using him as Lynch substitute while he's on a vacation, as he seems to interact so well with minions Illuminateds and Beckoners pop to mind as they work quite well with him with all the extra AP he's able to give out. Also The Depleted seems to go quite well as his own little personal Junkie in a leash as they synergize well with Devil's Deal being able to pull off all 4ss back with holding them close (hard to kill and 8 wounds). 

 

Other than that, I'd like to hear a bit more from you?

[Gorbad]

I'm waiting for the plastics to come out before I really use him but have tried him out a bit. I really like the theme of running a couple of 'normal' guardsmen and then having some monsters in the wing. You obviously need some good minions, but I don't think you need to go all minion, so I wouldn't neglect a few good enforcers/henchmen. But he is good fun and I've barely scratched the surface of playing him.

[zFiend]

What monsters are you running with him? 

 

I am also awaiting for the plastics but give him a few go's in Vassal, as he's wave 2 it will take a long time to get the plastics.

[Gorbad]

Tots/Young/Mature fits really well thematically I think, and he might actually be able to run quite a decent grow list. Not tried that yet, but I've been toying with the idea. As you said the brilliance crew is very good for him, but else it will be scheme dependent.

I do think he is quite flexible as long as you give him enough minions. The tricky thing to me is picking the Guardsman models. Possibly because I've never been a Guild player.

[Cyphre]

Thought I would try to ressurrect this thread as I have started playing Lucius exclusively. I really want to keep a thematic crew with Lucius being a corrupt official, who will use the Guild forces combined with his own mercenaries - the mimics. So far I have played four games - all 50ss, two wins and two losses.

 

My first game (Hold Ground - 3 player game against Marcus and Lilith)

 

Lucius

- Surprising Loyal

- Secret Assests

Captain Dashel

2 x Guild Riflemen

Mr. Tannen

Mr. Graves

Doppleganger

Beckoner

 

What I learned from the game is that Lucius and his Commanding Presence can be crazy good when your Riflemen are in a good position. Captain Dashel makes them so good. Lucius without a doubt works so well with his minions and really has no synergi with Tannen, Graves and Doppleganger. The Beckoner was surprisingly uneffective. In the end I won the game because of Lucius and his Scheme Marker manipulations.

 

2nd game (Squatter's Rights vs. Lilith)

 

Lucius

- Surprising Loyal

- Secret Assests

Guild Lawyer

Primodial Magic

Mr. Tannen

Mr. Graves

Doppleganger

-Useless Manipulations

2 x Beckoner 

 

I really wanted to try and get good use of the Beckoners and wanted to try out the Lawyer as well. My opponent targeted Mr. Graves from the beginning and despite him killing a Waldgeist, he was no match for Lilith. We played on my usual Docks board with loads of terrain, and I found myself locked into a part of the board. When Graves died I found that I severely lacked another beat stick. After three rounds we called the game, as I saw no way that I could turn things around. The Beckoners once again proved unable to do anything for the crew, their Ca 6 with Lure is simply not high enough. The Lawyer's (0) action that gives a model Hard to Wound +1 is great and the   on Horror Duels is good. We talked about me really lacking some objective grabbers. 

 

3rd Game (Reconnoiter vs. Tara)

 

Lucius

- Surprising Loyal

- Secret Assests

- Watch my Back

Captain Dashel

2 x Guild Riflemen

Mr. Tannen

Mr. Graves

Doppleganger

-Useless Manipulations

 

This game was over before Turn 3, Tara's heavy hitters Killjoy, Nothing Beast and Bishop killing my Riflemen and Captain Dashel before they could do much. With only four models left, we decided to try and squezze another game instead. The lack of a second beat stick again being a problem.

 

 

4th Game (Turf War vs. Tara)

 

Lucius

- Surprising Loyal

- Secret Assests

Guild Lawyer

Teddy

Mr. Tannen

Mr. Graves

Doppleganger

-Useless Manipulations

Guild Rifleman

 

I figured I needed a good beat stick for this one and went with Teddy. While his is not a mimic, I like the idea of Lucius going on a nighttime mission, and once they hit opposition, he'll bark the order "Unless the Teddy". With only one Minion I knew I would not have much synergi between Lucius and the crew, so I wanted to make sure that the Guild Rifleman was kept neatly at the back. Teddy proved to be a purchase, as he killed Killjoy with 3 hugs and almost took out Tara as well, before the Nothing Beast and Bishop killed him. I made good use of Lucius' Hidden Sniper, What Lackeys are For and Commanding Presence. The Guild Lawyer's 6      to Horror Duels helping.

My friend called the game when he had lost Killjoy, Bishop and the Nothing Beast.

 

 

So far Lucius has been either really effective or totally ineffective in the games I have played. I like to run him with 7 ss, which I use almost exclusigely to draw extra cards, or get suits.

 

Captain Dashel and the Guild Riflemen can be so deadly, but can also be easily taken out, if a Terrifying beat stick suddenly stands next to them. Dashel does not do much himself, but he makes the Riflemen incredibly good, with   to Sh and giving them the ability to take Focus as a (0). But for a combined 19 points you really need to think before investing in them. 

 

My core crew has so far been Mr. Graves, Mr. Tannen and Doppleganger, highly flexible and thematic. The Guild Lawyer works nicely with them too.

 

I have since ordered The Pale Rider, Tuco, 3 Terror Tots and a proxy for The Scribe. The Pale Rider I just a great looking model and will fill a double role of being both a beat stick and objective grabber. The tots are IMO the best objective grabbers in the game and I see them being some of Lucius "own people" who he brings forward once the night arrives. Tuco I think could provide some good range, when I'm not taking the Dashel/Riflemen combo, and having the Doppleganger use Tuco's shotgun is another neat option for some blasting power. The Scribe is a cheap totem, who can remove Conditions from Lucius and provide mimics with +1 DF which is nice.

 

I will add to this thread once I have played more games.

[zFiend]

I have to read that later on when I have more time, cheers for writing it! 

[Thaarup]

Interesting topic. 

I wonder if you have tried using Pathfinders instead of Rifflemen?

 

If you really need a scond beatstick, why not try a henchman?

[zFiend]

Great write up. I hope you share more of your experiences with Lucius, he is an intriguing master but the one time I played him ended in an utter defeat against Shenlong.

[Lynch]

Recently i have been playing lucius NB, my mostly common list is thisone:

 

-Lucius. SS pool 7

+ Surpringsinly loyal 1

+ Aether connection

 

The scribe 2

Beckoner 7

Dopppegganger 7

Guild riflemen 5

Guild riflemen 5

Guild riflemen 5

Guild Austringer 6

Graves 8

 

This is a tematic list, focusing in guardsmen and mimics, but I want to try change the scribe and graves for Bad Juju, i think that a tank miniature with regeneration is usefull for maximize the effect of change life for soulstones.

[Cyphre]

Interesting topic. 

I wonder if you have tried using Pathfinders instead of Rifflemen?

 

If you really need a scond beatstick, why not try a henchman?

Even though the Pathfinders are Guardsmen, they really don't strike me as being very Guardsmen like. This rules them out for me, the same goes for all the Guild constructs - they just don't fit my perception of Lucius as the corrupt official/policeman.

 

Captain Dashel is his henchman and he has his uses, just not as a beat stick. The Widow Weaver is cool and thematically fits with both Dreamer and Collodi, but not Lucius IMO. 

[Cyphre]

Recently i have been playing lucius NB, my mostly common list is thisone:

 

-Lucius. SS pool 7

+ Surpringsinly loyal 1

+ Aether connection

 

The scribe 2

Beckoner 7

Dopppegganger 7

Guild riflemen 5

Guild riflemen 5

Guild riflemen 5

Guild Austringer 6

Graves 8

 

This is a tematic list, focusing in guardsmen and mimics, but I want to try change the scribe and graves for Bad Juju, i think that a tank miniature with regeneration is usefull for maximize the effect of change life for soulstones.

I like thematic lists and this one is a good one as well. Let me know if you get any use out of the Beckoner.

[Cyphre]

Great write up. I hope you share more of your experiences with Lucius, he is an intriguing master but the one time I played him ended in an utter defeat against Shenlong.

That is my experience as well. I like when a master has more than one playstyle and doesn't click the first time you play him.

 

Hopefully I will get another game in this week.

[Lynch]

Beckoner is more usefull that could be expected in a fast view. I think that Lucius band is the shootter band of the Neverborn, or at least I am playing this way. You can deploy 4 miniatures made for ranged attacks; riflemen, austringer, dashel, guards, sergeants... and tucco.

 

In this playstyle the role off the beckoner is one of the most vital for the supervivence of the master, the beckoner can lure Lucius when he is engaged in a melee or can lure the enemy and disengage from a melee, althought she can bring out your enemys from coverture.

 

Seriously, i cant play lucius without the beckoner, she is not only tematic, she is competitive too.

[Adran]

Can I ask how you know what is a thematic crew?

To the best of my Knowledge we have no actual idea at the moment of what Lucius' link to the Neverborn is.

 

What I do know of him has no links what so ever to the honeypot, Jacob or Brilliance.

[Cyphre]

Can I ask how you know what is a thematic crew?

To the best of my Knowledge we have no actual idea at the moment of what Lucius' link to the Neverborn is.

 

What I do know of him has no links what so ever to the honeypot, Jacob or Brilliance.

Thematic crew is what I believe fits well with my perception of Lucius. You're absolutely right that we don't really know what or who Lucius is, and I quite like it that way.

 

My perception of Lucius

To me he is this guild official/chief of police who secretly runs the Guild and to some extend Malifaux. Sometimes the forces of the Guild (Guardsmen) will do the job, but when night descends and Lucius needs to maintain his control, he brings out his associates (Mimics). He will do whatever it takes to maintain his control and will bring a monster (Teddy) or undead (Pale Rider) to work for him if that means control is maintained.

 

He also needs to get information from more shady characters and this is where the Wastrels fit in as well. However I don't want to buy the entire McCabe crew just for them. Sometimes it is also good to spread a little fear and this is where the Terror Tots fit.

 

Others will undoubtably have another view on Lucius. But I will not put Hoffman's constructs, The Latigo posse, Death Marshals or Witchling Stalkers in his crew, as they don't fit my idea of Lucius.

[Lynch]

I think that a thematic based lucius crew is made of mimics and guardsman, like nephilim are for lilith or nightmares are for the dreamer.

[Cyphre]

I think that a thematic based lucius crew is made of mimics and guardsman, like nephilim are for lilith or nightmares are for the dreamer.

I agree, but Guild Hounds aside there are no good objective runners, and there is a lack of good beat sticks as well. I will however try to field mostly Guardsmen and Mimics.

[zFiend]

I saw a really interesting combo today.

 

Lucius with Malifaux Child and the Doppelganger. That was insane. 

 

Basically he used the Child's Just Like You and copy Issue Command for example. And then he used Mimic to copy the Just Like You from the Child to Issue Command even more. That was brutal. Didn't play against it, but saw it happening  

[hypoking]

Has potential. Think you could get some real utility out of what lackeys are for for some scheme slinging off of that. Any interaction between those three models is going to be card heavy as hell but has high shenanigans potential.

 

Edit: Should also allow the same model to follow orders multiple times in a turn. Nifty.

[Cyphre]

What lackeys are for is excellent...combined with Watch your back you can slingshot a beatstick into melee.

It is also good as a way to get scheme markers down fast ad the slingshot model can move into a good position and still put down a scheme marker on his own

[Myth]

zFiend, on 24 Jun 2014 - 2:34 PM, said:

I saw a really interesting combo today.

 

Lucius with Malifaux Child and the Doppelganger. That was insane. 

 

Basically he used the Child's Just Like You and copy Issue Command for example. And then he used Mimic to copy the Just Like You from the Child to Issue Command even more. That was brutal. Didn't play against it, but saw it happening

 

I had just been thinking about trying this combo with some of the other Neverborn Masters - Dreamer in particular has a good Ca action with a relatively easy TN. I think the once per turn on Just Like You will keep it from being overpowered, but I can defininitely imagine it being very effective when the opponent doesn't see it coming.

[4thstringer]

I feel like you are getting really card intensive once you start inserting the child into there.

[Cyphre]

Yesterday I had the opportunity to get another game in with Lucius. This time Reckoning against the Vics. With still no Terror Tots, Tuco, Pale Rider or Scribe, I decided to go with Schemes that did not require scheme markers being put down, which from the scheme pool meant that I had to take Cursed Object and Bodyguard (on Capt. Dashel)

 

For my crew I went with the following:

 

Lucius

- Surprisingly Loyal

- Secret Assests

- Legalese

Capt. Dashel

Doppleganger

- Useless Duplications

Mr. Graves

- Obsidian Talons

Teddy

Lawyer

2 x Guild Riflemen

 

I think I lost something like 7-1, but it felt a lot closer. My Riflemen, with the help of Lucius' "Commanding Presence" had killed Rusty Alice at the start of Turn 2. The Lawyer's 6'   that gives   to Horror Duels is incredibly helpful. I proceeded to gamble a bit and went overboard with Teddy and Doppleganger who took on the Vics and got hammered. I did not get any use out of Mr. Graves this time, and I really should have put him with Teddy and Doppleganger to boost them. Capt. Dashel's Abilities is why you take him, not his Collier Arms gun or Baton, he just makes the Guild Riflemen so much better. In the end I also used "On yer Feet" on the Lawyer, who ended up killing Bishop, and one of the Riflemen, in an attempt to kill henchman Vic - Lucius had taken out master Vic with "Hidden Sniper". Had the game gone on for one more round  I think I might have prevented my opponent from getting Breakthrough and perhaps Bodyguard.

Despite taking Doppleganger for every single game that I have played with Lucius, I still am having problems getting the best use out of her. Maybe I am too much on the offensive with her. The synergie of Lucius, Capt. Dashel, Lawyer and the Riflemen can really make a mess of your opponents models, but it's a heavy ss investment.

[zFiend]

I had just been thinking about trying this combo with some of the other Neverborn Masters - Dreamer in particular has a good Ca action with a relatively easy TN. I think the once per turn on Just Like You will keep it from being overpowered, but I can defininitely imagine it being very effective when the opponent doesn't see it coming.

 

You should try it, it was kinda terrible to watch Are you talking about Empty Night with the Dreamer? Sorry a bit off topic but I'm curious.

[Tuttleboy]

Malifaux Child may be a good hire for Dreamer. But I'd hate to spend 3 SS and then sacrifice him as soon as I summoned a Daydream. Daydreams Lead Nightmare is just way to valuable in the Kid's crew. I think I'll give it a try to see how well it works.