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M2e Kaeris

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Well lets look at Kaeris ability to deal with armor 2 izamu If he does not have burning u Iron halo the guy for B+2 then you 2x Immolate the guy for 2/3/5 (cheating or fliping sever due to modified flip) (effigy gives u B+1 unless card discarded) so After Kaeris 3ap onslaught  Izamu sits comfortable at 3/9 wounds and burning 4. Shooting him once with a gamin will drop him to 2/9 burning 5.

 

Now if he had burning on him previously You are looking at a +/+ 2/3/5 dmg flip with B+1/card drop. If you have the gamin growing upgrade(you should) it might be worth to sacrefice 2-3 severes from hand to kill this 10 ss model and gain a 4 stone gamin as a power move.

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EDIT: After reading my post I feel like I may have come off as harsh? Please, I don't mean to I promise >.<

First of all don't expect to always have severe cards for everything. Especially because you may want to save them for other placed on the board too. For example, I'd rather have firestarter move, focus, and BURNNN! an enemy scheme runner off the table with a severe card than do an extra 2 damage to Izamu. Also a +flip to damage isn't always a severe, and especially so when your opponent can cheat up to put you at a streight flip (though you can cheat it, that's the point, but see above).

Secondly I really don't like the Born of Fire upgrade. Sure, when I first saw it I was like WOW! But when actually thinking about it, you spend 2 ss on the upgrade, you use an upgrade slot, and you need a suit so either a specific card or another ss, and you get a fire gamin which has 2 wounds, slow, and Df4 summoned (most likely) near enemy models where it will be almost immediately killed (granted, it gives out Burning and 1 damage when it dies). Even if it isn't killed, it'll take an additional turn before it can even act normally.

I don't like it. I prefer taking Grab and Drop and Blinding Flame for board control, and immolate is only used when it's helpful, not as a damage dealing ability. Any AP not used for Halo (for board control pushes or burning allies) or Accelerant (for damage or more crowd control) is being used to move 6" up to get in position for better Accelerants. My third upgrade I haven't really decided on a must-take, but Bleeding Edge and Arcane Reservoir are both good options, better than Born of Fire imo.

In theory, I don't need to immolate Izamu. I just push him 3-6" back and prevent him from charging, or stick a (defensive stance and Df6) metal gamin in his face to keep him stationary for 2 or 3 turns while he eats 2 damage a turn from burning and accelerant and such.

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Yeah, I have found fire gamin in general to be lackluster. If I want something at that ss cost, I almost always take metal gamin instead, and I never bother with their summoning upgrade. But it may be that I haven't given either a good enough chance - have people had big successes with them?

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I actually really like fire gamin. They have an above average Sh5 (for their cost) and min damage 3 (if you factor in the burning). I can't think of many other models that are as accurate or as killy as a fire gamin for 4ss.

 

The summon upgrade is definitely optional, but certainly not bad in my experience. Since they are primarily ranged they tend to be effective even with slow. Otherwise they begin already engaging a model, tying it down and still doing damage upon its death. With armour +1 it usually takes two hits to kill on weak damage so it's just enough of a nuisance. 

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Is it me or is Kaeris starter the cheapest (SS wise) starter to be released?

 

Eternal Flame is 3 + 3x4 for Fire gamin & 7 for Firestarter = 22SS, with upgrades and cache its around 30?

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The effective damage of 3/3/4 (along with a 2 dmg blast on med and severe) is what is drawing me the most to just hiring two fire gamin every game. Plus you can get two fire gamin for just 1SS more than the gunsmiths that everyone seems to praise but I find lackluster.

Can't seem to fit them though, since I want 2 fire gamin, 2 rail workers, 2 malifaux raptors, Mech Rider, firestarter, and Johan :(

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See, I've found the opposite - my Gunsmiths always seem to perform at cost, but my fire gamin just seem to go down too quickly to accomplish much. But I'll keep trying them - my local scene is starting a new league tomorrow, for which I'm going back to arcanists after a long outcast spell, and Kaeris is going to be one of my main focuses this time around.

 

And yeah, the new box is definitely cheap - it's a pity they've dropped the Gunsmiths. I know the boxes vary a lot, but it's nice to be able to field a reasonable 35ss crew out of one for new players.

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I actually went into a lengthy discussion about gunsmiths already and was convinced of their general usefulness.... with Ironsides. With Kaeris however, I just don't see how that min/moderate damage 2/3 doesn't completely cripple them. I understand their incredible accuracy, but I expect more than 2 damage coming from a 7 SS model.

Also their fast mechanic is just such a pain in the butt, I hate fishing for cards and I hate keeping low cards in my hand when I could be using a ss to draw 2 discard 2. I would have preferred rapid fire or that thing that Lazarus has. But that's just me.

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I like purifying fire. Helps throw a bit of healing out can block off los with pyre markers. Keeping a low ram for a gunsmith flare and cheat the ram for defece he now has fast and a point of regen at the end of the turn.

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Also gunsmiths are adaptable can do the same damage as acolytes either with a cheated high mask or a discarded low one and the kaeris crew doesnt need them that much. Willie is a good shooter too although always seems to be target number 1 for my opponents.

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But the benefit the Acolyte brings is the slow and the discard, not just the damage. I like cheating for the fast and getting burning for purifying, though. That's pretty slick.

 

I've said it somewhere before, but it may pertain here as well.

Sonnia wants a crew that can make her target be on fire so she can do nasty things to it.

Kaeris want to make her target be on fire so her crew can do nasty things to it. 

 

It's super broad. It's not even totally true. But gunsmiths are the reason it's at all true. Dropping a zero action to get  :+fate :+fate to all duels? That means horror duels. SH duels. Defense duels. Vs a target that's on fire. Spread that around, and he becomes double defensive, and extremely accurate (Damage flips aren't duels... so...... no go there. But still, flip three cards take the best sh6? Can get around someone being in cover and in the creepy fog, and still be at a straight flip?

 

And their triggers make them extremely versatile as well- being able to ignore hard to wound, hard to kill, and armor, or ignore soulstone preventions can make these guys a Master/Henchman killer. Pretty choice for a last ditch assassinate or murder protege. 

 

And with Hard to Kill and Kaeris with Purifying fire, they could surprise some folk with their survivability.

 

Just don't put burning on them hoping they'll heal, then let Kaeris die. That's a double whammy. O,O;

 

ENinja

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Interesting... I didn't realize you would get the ++ on Df duels as well... hmmm... now my only concerns are a) the fact that they are still 7ss so getting up to 8-9 activations is tough, and B) having to get them burning AND activate the gunsmith after, forcing your hand with activation control. But honestly those are pretty minor complaints.

EDIT: Now that I look at it, perhaps if I just take one, it would maximize the effectiveness without wasting too many SS. They get diminishing returns anyway due to not having guaranteed low rams/other triggers

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I tried out a Kaeris crew last night, which was a lot of fun to play and resulted in a nice close game against Rathnard's Lynch.

We flipped up Reckoning, and both took Protect Territory and Bodyguard for schemes.

I took:

Kaeris (Purifying Flame, Imbued Energies, Seize the Day)

The Captain (Patron's Blessing)

3x Gunsmiths

Johan

Soulstone Miner

The idea was to have a survivable gunline-ish crew that could really mix it up in melee, with loads of Hard to Kill and various sources of healing to keep them going. Not many activations, but plenty of AP, and the Soulstone Miner to secure Protect Territory.

Like all plans, it didn't really survive contact with the enemy. I spread my crew out too much, and ran into a few specific counters that hurt (the Lone Swordsman feels like he was specifically designed to romp all over Gunsmiths, it turns out). If I'd basically just bunched up and advanced slowly upfield, things would have gone much better.

One thing I really felt was that I was expecting Kaeris to do way too much heavy lifting. She needed to set the enemy on fire so the Gunsmiths could shoot them, and her own crew on fire so they could heal and gain Fast, and maintain her position against enemy Lures, and survive all the incoming attacks. She was an absolute champ (I reckon she tanked nearly 30 damage and survived, and played an important role in every enemy death including finishing off the Hungering Darkness and Lynch) but I felt she wasn't really getting the support she needed to gain momentum.

The Captain was a great Bodyguard target and I used him mainly for repositioning Kaeris and setting her on fire. I would have liked to use him to disrupt the enemy more, but just didn't have to cards to support any direct attacks. (My control hand featured only two cards above a six for the first three turns of the game, and not one single Tome, despite burning a stone to draw every time. That deck is going back on the shelf, even though it's been signed by Justin.)

The Miner almost did what it was supposed to do, but ran out of time to get full points from the scheme and generate enough soulstones for Kaeris to survive. If I'd remembered to bring it out for Turn 2 instead of 3 it would have done everything I needed it to. Amazing investment for only 6 stones.

Johan looked amazing on paper but I never actually managed to use his heal. He did manage to end the Lone Swordsman by refusing to die against two Illuminated and both the Swordsman's activations for the turn, but that was his only contribution to the game. If I had a do-over, I'd be using the Captain to push him around with the rest of the crew and saving him for healing late in the turn.

The Gunsmiths performed quite well (except against models with Bulletproof +3, wtf Swordsman) but never really got to shine - three was too many, I think. One or two would make it easy to gain Fast (1 AP from Kaeris could do it) and then they're a lot more effective. I do think their damage spread and trigger selection leaves them at a bit of a loss against Incorporeal opponents, but Kaeris can deal with those. Switching one out for the Firestarter (if I can find a proxy model, I can't stand the sculpt) would be better.

All up, I had a great time with Kaeris, and I was pleasantly surprised at her resilience and utility. Looking forward to getting her on the table again.

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Maybe an ox mage for a gunsmith and swap imbued energies for arcane reservoir. Gives you more dmg vs incorporeal another source of burning and potentially soulstones plus an extra 5 cards over the course of the game.

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Yeah, definitely waiting impatiently on the Oxford Mages (and Ironsides!) - I can see them fitting into a lot of my Arcanist crews for their versatility and synergy with Warding Runes.

Arcane Reservoir is a good suggestion. When I was focusing on Outcasts, I took Oathkeeper on my Masters and Henchmen whenever possible, but I feel like the Arcanists are less dependent on using Fast for maximum alpha-strike. Kaeris especially has a pretty efficient action economy and I barely noticed the addition of 1 AP to her usual turn (in contrast to Viktoria or Leveticus, who can use 1 AP to devastating effect).

Arcanists really have a lock on the 7-stone and 4-stone model pools. So many amazing options.

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Just watch out for enemies that ignore Armor or H2K. I see Kaeris loves a lot of mid price models (7 stones) including Firestarter, Gunsmiths, and (the best model in the game imo) Johan. This forces (or at least nudges) her to rely on Metal Gamin and Rail Workers as her main frontline, both of which rely on their defensive abilities more than Wd pool (along with the H2K of Johan and Gunsmiths.

I'm definitely thinking of bringing Kaeris into my roster as a Squatter's Rights specialist. That cover ignoring 3" push on Blinding Flame as well as the AoE paralyze (potentially) from Accelerant can clear models off of squat markers easily. Plus it's much easier to predict where your opponent is going to be in Squatter's for placing Scheme markers as traps for performers to blow up. Anyone use this yet? And also who do you use to kill the enemy once you've applied the double negative flips? My bet is on Johan or Mech Rider as they have high moderate and Severe damage and (as long as Johan is with Imbued Energies) are fast enough to immediately target whoever fails the seduction duel.

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Just watch out for enemies that ignore Armor or H2K. I see Kaeris loves a lot of mid price models (7 stones) including Firestarter, Gunsmiths, and (the best model in the game imo) Johan. This forces (or at least nudges) her to rely on Metal Gamin and Rail Workers as her main frontline, both of which rely on their defensive abilities more than Wd pool (along with the H2K of Johan and Gunsmiths.

Will do. Arcanists seem to rely on Armor (and to a lesser extent HtK) pretty heavily - are there good alternatives? I guess Manipulative (e.g. Performers and Hoarcats) is an option, though it's not one I'd like to rely on, and otherwise you're pretty much back to high Df (seems to be a lot of that in Arcanists, especially with Imbued Protection) and/or blowing your opponent off the table before they get to hit you.

Who do you use to kill the enemy once you've applied the double negative flips? My bet is on Johan or Mech Rider as they have high moderate and Severe damage and (as long as Johan is with Imbued Energies) are fast enough to immediately target whoever fails the seduction duel.

Rail Golem, perhaps? Given the multiple rounds of brutal nerfing that Mei Feng's crew took in their ability to apply Burning to Constructs purely to prevent Rail Golem synergy, I was very surprised when Kaeris, Firestarter, Miners etc were all able to just add Burning straight up. Is the Rail Golem a solid pick for Kaeris, or is it one of those things where it's fine, but Mechanical Rider is just better?

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Ehh I just don't like the Rail Golem at all to be honest. It's Ml5 makes it prone to "I cheat a 13, you miss" despite the plus flip, and I generally hate anything that requires more than 1 card from your hand to excel. Also the low Df doesn't rub me the right way. But that's really just me, it has a lot of good things about it too and others have used it well. If bothered enough I can see myself convinced to give it a shot sometime.

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Ehh I just don't like the Rail Golem at all to be honest. It's Ml5 makes it prone to "I cheat a 13, you miss" despite the plus flip, and I generally hate anything that requires more than 1 card from your hand to excel. Also the low Df doesn't rub me the right way. But that's really just me, it has a lot of good things about it too and others have used it well. If bothered enough I can see myself convinced to give it a shot sometime.

Fair enough. Ml5 is why you have a Performer dragging people down with :-fate :-fate to Df, right? :P

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Fair enough. Ml5 is why you have a Performer dragging people down with :-fate :-fate to Df, right? :P

Sure, but you can't guarantee that. It's more of an opportunity thing, you can't really plan for it (at least not as much as one would like). The enemy could cheat the duel, or avoid the marker entirely, or eat it with one of their own models (rat king/performer/McTavish etc), or kill the performer, or just remove the marker with a zero action, or etc etc.

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Just watch out for enemies that ignore Armor or H2K. I see Kaeris loves a lot of mid price models (7 stones) including Firestarter, Gunsmiths, and (the best model in the game imo) Johan. This forces (or at least nudges) her to rely on Metal Gamin and Rail Workers as her main frontline, both of which rely on their defensive abilities more than Wd pool (along with the H2K of Johan and Gunsmiths.

Actually can we get a list of models like these running? Each faction is so vastly different when it comes to dealing with Armor and such, I'd like to see it all in front of me on one page so I know who to target. Anyone interested in compiling a list?

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