M2e Kaeris

[bluepanther]

6 hours ago, KingCrow said:

Going with this thought on placement effects, and the fact that Malifaux is measured from top-down view, Kaeris wouldn't have to be on the same level as the enemy model upon placement, right? Just as long as she is 2 inches away from the model in the top-down view.  Or does she have to be within the 2 inches in all ranges/planes?

Correct you could put her at the base of a building and the other model on top. 

[Flippin' Wyrd George]

On 11/03/2018 at 8:04 PM, bluepanther said:

I'm curious what Kaeris typically does for you in a game? Does she attack, just pass out burning to teammates in order to draw cards, scheme? 

I played my first game with her and I am a bit disappointed in how it went. I felt I got nothing out of her. To be fair it was in part the way I played and I get that but I just don't see what she does in a typical game. As much as people rate Grab and drop I don't see how it is that great of an ability. She is typically only 1 above them stat wise for the duel. Am I missing something, is its main use for moving a model out of position?

Also, flying Howard/Mauler seems cool but what are they doing? I mean the Mauler just moves up to start getting attacked? Howard nimble walks, and attacks something after popping imbued energies? I guess set up is a good scheme for her but I feel like it becomes obvious once you end the activation with the first model and then the opponent can potentially read it easily and get their model out of there. 

Honesty, whatever I need her to do. It's very hard to define a role for Kaeris pre-game which is generally her strength. 

 

Moving stuff out of position is HUGE in malifaux, it was particularly relevant in 2017 though.

And you move your models up to a position where they are ready to go next turn, perhaps after a push from Angelica

[Fictor]

Man... few days ago speaking with @mojopin about Lampad... THIS is what Kaeris need... something to put burning and do thing with that, and is in another faction... Wyrd please!!! 

If at least it will be mercenary... like Performers for McMourning

[Adran]

59 minutes ago, Fictor said:

Man... few days ago speaking with @mojopin about Lampad... THIS is what Kaeris need... something to put burning and do thing with that, and is in another faction... Wyrd please!!! 

If at least it will be mercenary... like Performers for McMourning

I;m sure I read something similar in the guild forums when we first saw Lampads, only they misspelled Kaeris as S O N N I A

[azgadil]

One thing I have been testing is using Kaeris’ Heat Wave to lock down multiple models using the Heat Exhaustion condition. 

To start I use the following upgrades: Flaming Angel, Heat Wave and Seize the Day. My goal is for three models (no less than 2) to have minus two to all (ALL) their duels and two damage each.  ...  there are variations on this combo.

Incineterting Swoop (1 AP. Ca 6 TN13) over two, three or more enemies.  You must fly over them so Swoop gives them each an uncontested Burning. Be sure to end your Swoop within 2 of the enemies you really want to lock down so they are engaged. 

 

Cast Immolate on your primary target.  The goal here is not to damage but you want to trigger Spreading Inferno (see Flaming Angel upgrade). In addition to any damage the trigger will give Burning to all models within 3. 

 

For the third AP you have choices. 

I personally prefer Damaging multiple enemies using Accelerant becuase it’s not an opposed duel. 

 

Afterwards cast Heat Wave (Ca 7 Tn 12) which also does not require an opposed duel.  Reduce their burning to zero and maximize their Heatstroke. Now they are minus to their duels for the whole turn. They can’t likely walk out of disengage and any duels have an increased difficulty. Initially I think this is strong vs summoners but I haven’t tested fully. 

 

During their activation they will gain a burning or two from Intense Heat. 

I am currently trying this with Seize the Day so I can repeat this process. 

 

The goal here is to use Kaeris to lock down at least two models while the other models go about scoring for you. 

 

Engaged Tarpit

Swoop (not opposed)

Immolate

Accelerant (2 dmg not opposed)

Heat Wave (Not opposed)

 

Ranged - Keep enemies within six

Flaming Halo 

Immolate (trigger at Pulse 3)

immolate second target (trigger at pulse 3)

Heat Wave

 

 

 

 

[WWHSD]

9 minutes ago, azgadil said:

One thing I have been testing is using Kaeris’ Heat Wave to lock down multiple models using the Heat Exhaustion condition. 

To start I use the following upgrades: Flaming Angel, Heat Wave and Seize the Day. My goal is for three models (no less than 2) to have minus two to all (ALL) their duels and two damage each.  ...  there are variations on this combo.

Incineterting Swoop (1 AP. Ca 6 TN13) over two, three or more enemies.  You must fly over them so Swoop gives them each an uncontested Burning. Be sure to end your Swoop within 2 of the enemies you really want to lock down so they are engaged. 

 

Cast Immolate on your primary target.  The goal here is not to damage but you want to trigger Spreading Inferno (see Flaming Angel upgrade). In addition to any damage the trigger will give Burning to all models within 3. 

 

For the third AP you have choices. 

I personally prefer Damaging multiple enemies using Accelerant becuase it’s not an opposed duel. 

 

Afterwards cast Heat Wave (Ca 7 Tn 12) which also does not require an opposed duel.  Reduce their burning to zero and maximize their Heatstroke. Now they are minus to their duels for the whole turn. They can’t likely walk out of disengage and any duels have an increased difficulty. Initially I think this is strong vs summoners but I haven’t tested fully. 

 

During their activation they will gain a burning or two from Intense Heat. 

I am currently trying this with Seize the Day so I can repeat this process. 

 

The goal here is to use Kaeris to lock down at least two models while the other models go about scoring for you. 

 

Engaged Tarpit

Swoop (not opposed)

Immolate

Accelerant (2 dmg not opposed)

Heat Wave (Not opposed)

 

Ranged - Keep enemies within six

Flaming Halo 

Immolate (trigger at Pulse 3)

immolate second target (trigger at pulse 3)

Heat Wave

 

 

 

 

It’s a shame that Heat Wave didn’t give Kaeris Wicked.

[azgadil]

13 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

It’s a shame that Heat Wave didn’t give Kaeris Wicked.

Wicked is not needed I don’t think. 

Immolate has a built in positive to the attack flip (not a trigger) when the target is burning.  Since The enemy will gain burning when it starts its activation for being within 3 of Kaeris the attack flip is gained as part of the melee attack. 

[WWHSD]

1 hour ago, azgadil said:

Wicked is not needed I don’t think. 

Immolate has a built in positive to the attack flip (not a trigger) when the target is burning.  Since The enemy will gain burning when it starts its activation for being within 3 of Kaeris the attack flip is gained as part of the melee attack. 

She’s getting + flips but she isn’t actually damaging anything. It looks like Wyrd gave Marcus the “punish them for staying near you, punish them from moving away from you” gimmick with his new limited upgrade. I think it would have been a better fit for Kaeris and seen more play because it’s hard to beat Marcus’s limited that gives +2 damage/+3 Wk/+1 Ml AP.

[azgadil]

My intention is not to compare to Marcus. It’s to share a combo and control play style game for Kaeris players that doesn’t require a dedicated Crew to build upon (although it can certainly help).  

She is adding burning to enemy models that start within three and another if they end within three. With Heat Exhaustion they are less likely to move out of Engage and this can tie enemies down effectively as well as put a point or two of burning.  

There are a few things I initially like about this upgrade path. 1) Kaeris’ damage is on the low end. This combo gives her a control option. 2) Much of it is not depdentend on enemy duels. 3) She doesn’t need any burning support to make this happen and can run a full host of “good stuff” crews. 4) It’s a five stone upgrade path instead of six. 

Who else is testing out Heat Wave? Has any one tried three turns of negative duels with a single Heat Wave? Others? 

[WWHSD]

5 hours ago, azgadil said:

My intention is not to compare to Marcus. It’s to share a combo and control play style game for Kaeris players that doesn’t require a dedicated Crew to build upon (although it can certainly help).  

She is adding burning to enemy models that start within three and another if they end within three. With Heat Exhaustion they are less likely to move out of Engage and this can tie enemies down effectively as well as put a point or two of burning.  

There are a few things I initially like about this upgrade path. 1) Kaeris’ damage is on the low end. This combo gives her a control option. 2) Much of it is not depdentend on enemy duels. 3) She doesn’t need any burning support to make this happen and can run a full host of “good stuff” crews. 4) It’s a five stone upgrade path instead of six. 

Who else is testing out Heat Wave? Has any one tried three turns of negative duels with a single Heat Wave? Others? 

It seems like the amount of control Kaeris can exert is under the control of your opponent. If they bunch up for you and give you nice straight lines to push through with Flaming Angel you can probably get meaningful levels of Heat Exhaustion passed out. 

You are spending all of your master’s AP to do it, have multiple flips where a Black Joker can essentially waste your activation, your master needs to activate early to have any effect, and pushes and condition removal can really minimize all the work you put in.

If you want Kaeris to bring an Arcanists All-Stars crew and be able to support with with some control, I think that Grab and Drop, Blinding Flame (and a third upgrade of your choice) is probably the better option. Using Kaeris to screw with your opponent’s positioning is something that you as a player have a lot more control over.

I’m hoping that the Backdraft box gives us some models that can either quickly spread small amounts of burning to a number of enemy models or stack a decent amount of burning on a single model. That would let Kaeris swoop in and either effect a handful of models for a single turn or have enough Heat Exhaustion on a model that she doesn’t need to reapply it every turn.

[bluepanther]

On ‎3‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 12:27 AM, azgadil said:

One thing I have been testing is using Kaeris’ Heat Wave to lock down multiple models using the Heat Exhaustion condition. 

To start I use the following upgrades: Flaming Angel, Heat Wave and Seize the Day. My goal is for three models (no less than 2) to have minus two to all (ALL) their duels and two damage each.  ...  there are variations on this combo.

Incineterting Swoop (1 AP. Ca 6 TN13) over two, three or more enemies.  You must fly over them so Swoop gives them each an uncontested Burning. Be sure to end your Swoop within 2 of the enemies you really want to lock down so they are engaged. 

 

Cast Immolate on your primary target.  The goal here is not to damage but you want to trigger Spreading Inferno (see Flaming Angel upgrade). In addition to any damage the trigger will give Burning to all models within 3. 

 

For the third AP you have choices. 

I personally prefer Damaging multiple enemies using Accelerant becuase it’s not an opposed duel. 

 

Afterwards cast Heat Wave (Ca 7 Tn 12) which also does not require an opposed duel.  Reduce their burning to zero and maximize their Heatstroke. Now they are minus to their duels for the whole turn. They can’t likely walk out of disengage and any duels have an increased difficulty. Initially I think this is strong vs summoners but I haven’t tested fully. 

 

During their activation they will gain a burning or two from Intense Heat. 

I am currently trying this with Seize the Day so I can repeat this process. 

 

The goal here is to use Kaeris to lock down at least two models while the other models go about scoring for you. 

 

Engaged Tarpit

Swoop (not opposed)

Immolate

Accelerant (2 dmg not opposed)

Heat Wave (Not opposed)

 

Ranged - Keep enemies within six

Flaming Halo 

Immolate (trigger at Pulse 3)

immolate second target (trigger at pulse 3)

Heat Wave

 

 

 

 

I want to point out one thing that was mentioned. If she triggers, "spreading inferno" in the scenario you laid out, Kaeris would gain burning as well unless I am missing something. She would be within 2" of the target and it pulses out 3" from the target. That is if the Swoop is done first. You'd have to immolate and trigger 1st, then swoop in. 

[WWHSD]

8 minutes ago, bluepanther said:

I want to point out one thing that was mentioned. If she triggers, "spreading inferno" in the scenario you laid out, Kaeris would gain burning as well unless I am missing something. She would be within 2" of the target and it pulses out 3" from the target. That is if the Swoop is done first. You'd have to immolate and trigger 1st, then swoop in. 

You aren't missing anything. She'd get burning and Heat Wave Kaeris has no way to deal with burning on herself. 

[Squirrelich]

*shrug, she has armor.

[Franchute]

4 hours ago, WWHSD said:

You aren't missing anything. She'd get burning and Heat Wave Kaeris has no way to deal with burning on herself. 

Unless a fire golem... 😀🔥

[azgadil]

After a few play throughs this is just not great.  While It’s really fun when you pull it off - I’ve watched 12 point models just sit there and take up space cause they can’t cast anything. 

Kaeris is going to sit on the shelf for awhile. She is why I chose arcanists (loved the sculpt - who doesn’t love a steampunk angel?) but at this point she seems nearly unplayable. 

[ExperimentAlpha]

5 hours ago, azgadil said:

After a few play throughs this is just not great.  While It’s really fun when you pull it off - I’ve watched 12 point models just sit there and take up space cause they can’t cast anything. 

Kaeris is going to sit on the shelf for awhile. She is why I chose arcanists (loved the sculpt - who doesn’t love a steampunk angel?) but at this point she seems nearly unplayable. 

Stuff like this is why I wish we had some beta rules for what Wyrd was sending down the pipe... fire golem testing could breathe life into Kaeris

[retnab]

4 hours ago, ExperimentAlpha said:

Stuff like this is why I wish we had some beta rules for what Wyrd was sending down the pipe... fire golem testing could breathe life into Kaeris

At least Backdraft releases this month (hopefully)!  I can't wait to have a reason to break Kaeris out again, assuming the box is as good for her as it sounds.

[azgadil]

Where have you heard details about the backdraft box that inspire optimism for Kaeris? 

From what hat I have seen this is all speculation around “Fire Golem” and assumptions the Fire Golem will breathe new life. ... is there any fluff or concrete evidence Fire Golem and the BackDraft Box are going to buff /improve Kaeris? 

[solkan]

7 minutes ago, azgadil said:

Where have you heard details about the backdraft box that inspire optimism for Kaeris? 

From what hat I have seen this is all speculation around “Fire Golem” and assumptions the Fire Golem will breathe new life. ... is there any fluff or concrete evidence Fire Golem and the BackDraft Box are going to buff /improve Kaeris? 

From the Monday Preview:

https://www.wyrd-games.net/news/2018/3/26/monday-preview-fire-golem

Quote

The Fire Golem is a powerful enforcer that utilizes the Burning Condition in a number of new ways. In addition to lighting enemies on fire with its Flaming Fist and Flame Tornado attacks, it possesses the Flame Nova Action, which lets it discard a card to give all models within 3" and LoS (including itself) the Burning Condition. This isn't the only way the Fire Golem can light its own fire; it has the Kindling trigger on its Flaming Fists that increase its Burning, as well as the amazing Draw Off Flame action, which lets it teleport into base contact with a Burning model within 10" and absorb all of its flames.

As one might expect, the Fire Golem isn't really hindered by being on fire. It's immune to any sort of damage from the Burning Condition, and when it suffers damage, it can lower its Burning Condition to reduce the amount of damage it suffers by an equal amount. In order to make this ability more effect, the Fire Golem doesn't end its Burning Condition at the end of the turn... and neither does anyone unfortunate enough to be in base contact with it.

Somewhere in the far-away workshops of the Arcanists, Anasalea Kaeris is making squeeing sounds.

Is that enough evidence for you?  

[azgadil]

Ha!  I missed that! Very promising. 

Thank you! 

[Adran]

2 hours ago, azgadil said:

Where have you heard details about the backdraft box that inspire optimism for Kaeris

The other preview talks about burning as well. The sabators can give it out on mass, and fitzsimmons also makes use of it. Not sure if he gives it out, or only interacts with it, but it's enough to look interesting for flaming kaeris. 

[WWHSD]

14 minutes ago, Adran said:

The other preview talks about burning as well. The sabators can give it out on mass, and fitzsimmons also makes use of it. Not sure if he gives it out, or only interacts with it, but it's enough to look interesting for flaming kaeris. 

That preview made it look like both Fitzsimmons and Saboteurs had abilities that interacted with scheme markers to give burning (and damage). 

[ExperimentAlpha]

I kinda feel like 'our half' of the Backdraft box is/should be part of Kaeris' base crew to begin with. I see several parallels with the Rasputina and Ironsides boxes - Kaeris, her totem, Fire golem, Fitz+Saboteurs.

[Adran]

13 hours ago, ExperimentAlpha said:

Stuff like this is why I wish we had some beta rules for what Wyrd was sending down the pipe... fire golem testing could breathe life into Kaeris

We get a year's releases at a time normally. There is only so far in advance seeing stuff would help. 

I think the back draft box looks very good for kaeris and collete, but interesting for all masters. 

 

18 hours ago, azgadil said:

 

Kaeris is going to sit on the shelf for awhile. She is why I chose arcanists (loved the sculpt - who doesn’t love a steampunk angel?) but at this point she seems nearly unplayable. 

I disagree. She might not play well the way you want to play her, but people are getting results with her so she can't be unplayable. 

[azgadil]

1 hour ago, Adran said:

I disagree. She might not play well the way you want to play her, but people are getting results with her so she can't be unplayable. 

I am pleased to hear!  I find her very difficult to pilot.  

What tactics and crews are getting results?  

I haven’t tried playing her as a full support master so that is at least one playstyle I can explore.