M2e Kaeris

[Findas]

ok guys this has been a very informative discussion. i have kaeris starter and i am going to pick up iggy to proxy for the firestarter and a fire kami from bushido to use as the eternal flame (unless you have a better suggestion) , unfortunately i have a very limited budget and i would like to know what i should get next?

[mythicFOX]

My suggestion would be you'll need something to hold the line to complement what you have there. On theme I'd go with a Rail Golem, it's got a good mix of; hitting, tanking, and speed. Plus it can hand out burning, which is never bad in this crew.

[Findas]

that was my thinking too but there has been a lot of talk about the mechanical rider and howard langston and i didn't know which would work best.

[bertmac]

Have you ever used vent steam mythicfox?

[Kadeton]

that was my thinking too but there has been a lot of talk about the mechanical rider and howard langston and i didn't know which would work best.

 

I would recommend whichever one you like the look of most. They're all about the same level of power with various strengths and weaknesses.

 

Be aware that to get full use out of the Mechanical Rider, you will also need to get a selection of minions for it to summon, so cost may be a factor.

[mythicFOX]

I would avoid the Mech Rider for a while.  It's great but with model pool you have the Golem or Howard will work better for you.  Howard is better in a flank or counter attacking the enemy, effectively in your second line.  The Rail Golem is better up front and in the center, so it depends what you need.

 

 

Have you ever used vent steam mythicfox?

 

Do you mean Steam Cloud (Howard) or Vent Boiler (Rail Golem)?  

 

For Howard I find it ok, but normally I try to avoid having Miss Step where she can be shot, so I don't find it overly useful.  The only time I've used Vent Boiler is turn one to give my own crew burning, which it's very effective at. That's not to say it can't be of use aggressively, I just tend to find locomotion much more effective.

[bertmac]

I would avoid the Mech Rider for a while.  It's great but with model pool you have the Golem or Howard will work better for you.  Howard is better in a flank or counter attacking the enemy, effectively in your second line.  The Rail Golem is better up front and in the center, so it depends what you need.

 

 

 

Do you mean Steam Cloud (Howard) or Vent Boiler (Rail Golem)?  

 

For Howard I find it ok, but normally I try to avoid having Miss Step where she can be shot, so I don't find it overly useful.  The only time I've used Vent Boiler is turn one to give my own crew burning, which it's very effective at. That's not to say it can't be of use aggressively, I just tend to find locomotion much more effective.

Me too it's just you said about the rg being able to put burning on opponents but as far as I can tell vent boiler is the only way to do this everything else adds to its own burning condition.

[EntrepeNinja]

If something near the rail golem has the new upgrade powered by flame, constructs dealing damage near them can cause them to gain burning 1. 

 

In other news- anyone else sad that if the Arcane Effigy puts it's (0) action on kaeris (on damage: gain burning +1 unless you discard a card) doesn't work for flaming halo? But on the other hand- Once you have burning on them, Every immolate adds a stack of fire... 

 

Mixed feelings...

 

ENinja

[mythicFOX]

Me too it's just you said about the rg being able to put burning on opponents but as far as I can tell vent boiler is the only way to do this everything else adds to its own burning condition.

 

I didn't say opponents, I just said it can 'hand out burning'. I should have been clearer as I meant that it could pass burning to it's own crew.

 

The Arcane Effigy is an interesting one. I usually take one when I want the condition removal. As you say it'll only really work on immolate, and at the point I'm immolating the target's normally already as on fire as I want it to be.

 

On another note I did an experimental video battle report with Kaeris, you can see it here;  http://youtu.be/G7EWRAe4Rkg

[Bengt]

On another note I did an experimental video battler report with Kaeris, you can see it here;  http://youtu.be/G7EWRAe4Rkg

Very nice. I much prefer a sped up Vassal game as there tends to be a lot fiddling with UI and stuff in a full video.

[EntrepeNinja]

really cool to see. Never seen a kaeris charge before- very impressed by the results.

 

Audio seemed a little quiet- anyone else thing that?

 

ENinja

 

Edit: Glad I kept watching! I hand't thought about a) using a performer as ranged scheme marker removal. That is brutal. Or using understudy to have Cassy have scheme marker removal too! Some really nice stuff in there. Thanks for the share! (Now if only "Just like You" was a CA action, so Cassy could steal it to chain-cast another out of activation Flaming Halo)

[Sholto]

I know it is OT, but with Colette's Prompt, Showgirls can get some silly scheme marker removal going in the final Turn Kill the Performer!!!

[EntrepeNinja]

"Strike me down, and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine... Well... I mean... Colette will gain reactivate, so SHE will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine... Though... you can probably imagine it. it's just like... twice as powerful as she is now. Which I'll admit is pretty powerful, but it's not like... stretching the definition of human evolution or anything. Seriously. She makes it look easy, and effortless, but the rehearsals are murder... Wait what was I talking about? Oh right. Don't kill me!"

 

-Justine- (Performer at the Star Theater)

[Scorpion0x17]

What would people recommend for a 40ss thematic/fluffy Kaeris crew?

 

I'm just starting out in the game and bought the metal Kaeris starter, what I currently have at my disposal are:

 

• Kaeris.
• 2x Gunsmith.
• 3x Fire Gamin.
• 1x Rail Golem.
• 3x Rail Worker (from the Rail Crew set (though these aren't put together yet)).

 

And I will soon have (just as soon as my order (that includes a Dawn Serpent for when I decide to run Mei Feng as TT) arrives):

 

• 3x Metal Gamin.

 

I've also run with a proxied The Firestarter a couple of times and like how he works, but I'm not sure what to try next, or what Upgrades to best use and on which models.

[EntrepeNinja]

It would probably depend on the strategies and schemes, of course- For instance, if you had turf war, I'd say a rail golem with the upgrade that lets models heal instead of take fire damage might be good to anchor- And if you're looking at a reckoning bringing lots of cheap, easily killed minions is probably a poor choice... But something like this maybe?

 

Arcanists Crew - 40 - Dustup

 

Kaeris -- 6 Pool

 +Born of Fire [2]

 +Grab and Drop [1]

 +Imbued Energies [1]

 

Malifaux Child [3]

Fire Gamin [4]

Gunsmith [7]

Gunsmith [7]

Metal Gamin [4]

The Firestarter [7]

 +Powered by Flame [2]

 

 

Gives you a decent number of activations, as well as quite a bit of burning synergy. If things die by fire, you get additional fire gamin (which is why you don't run all three. ) The Metal and Fire gamin are good targets for the Malifaux Child to set on fire with Halo so they can wings of fire down field and place schemes, Then they start handing out burning, and the gunsmiths try and clean up. Kaeris and the firestarter work together to set people ablaze for more schemes as needed, and killing priority targets, as necessary. 

 

Given the limited selection of models, that'd probably be something pretty standard. The Rail crew and Rail golem can be exchanged for the gunsmiths and such if you're looking for more of a hold center crew, though fire gamin are great (as said in other threads) as hard to hit, take activations to kill, and I think their headbutt can light people on fire? (Fact check?)

 

I've only gotten a couple games in, but again with the limited models available, that'll probably be close to what you're lookin' at.

 

ENinja

[mythicFOX]

Given the models you list I'd go with the following by default;

 

Kaeris -- 5 Pool

+Arcane Reservoir [2]
+Grab and Drop [1]

 

Metal Gamin [4]
Metal Gamin [4]
Rail Golem [11]
Rail Worker [5]
Rail Worker [5]
The Firestarter [7]

 

This should be fairly flexible. I'd bring a Gunsmith and Bleeding Edge Tech in for Reckoning. I'd throw imbued energies on The Firestarter in Stake a Claim or Squatter's Rights.

[Scorpion0x17]

 

It would probably depend on the strategies and schemes, of course- For instance, if you had turf war, I'd say a rail golem with the upgrade that lets models heal instead of take fire damage might be good to anchor- And if you're looking at a reckoning bringing lots of cheap, easily killed minions is probably a poor choice... But something like this maybe?

 

Arcanists Crew - 40 - Dustup

 

Kaeris -- 6 Pool

 +Born of Fire [2]

 +Grab and Drop [1]

 +Imbued Energies [1]

 

Malifaux Child [3]

Fire Gamin [4]

Gunsmith [7]

Gunsmith [7]

Metal Gamin [4]

The Firestarter [7]

 +Powered by Flame [2]

 

 

Gives you a decent number of activations, as well as quite a bit of burning synergy. If things die by fire, you get additional fire gamin (which is why you don't run all three. ) The Metal and Fire gamin are good targets for the Malifaux Child to set on fire with Halo so they can wings of fire down field and place schemes, Then they start handing out burning, and the gunsmiths try and clean up. Kaeris and the firestarter work together to set people ablaze for more schemes as needed, and killing priority targets, as necessary. 

 

Given the limited selection of models, that'd probably be something pretty standard. The Rail crew and Rail golem can be exchanged for the gunsmiths and such if you're looking for more of a hold center crew, though fire gamin are great (as said in other threads) as hard to hit, take activations to kill, and I think their headbutt can light people on fire? (Fact check?)

 

I've only gotten a couple games in, but again with the limited models available, that'll probably be close to what you're lookin' at.

 

ENinja

 

 

Thanks ENinja.

 

Regarding Schemes and Strats - yeah, should have included, in my post, something like "and options for different schemes and strategies"!

 

Anyway, regarding the list itself, hmm... interesting...

 

I've seen Malifaux Child in a number of Kaeris crews, and I can see why, but, is this one of those "running a master with a ca action? take Malifaux Child!" type situations, or is he particularly strong synergistically in a Kaeris crew in particular?

 

Also, I really like highly thematic 'fluffy' crew or army lists, so, whilst I would consider a variety of mercenaries for specific game play reasons, I don't want to build the backbone of my crew around one.

 

With respect to the Gamins, one of the reasons I've got some Metal Gamin's on order is that I've found the Rail Golem can be hard to keep alive, so was thinking of teaming him up with one or two of those to give him a better df.

 

Now, as I understand it, if the target of a Metal Gamin's Metal Protection moves out of the 3" bubble of protection around the Gamins it immediately loses said protection, so, would it perhaps be better to drop the Fire Gamin (but keep them available for Kaeris to summon) and take a second Metal Gamin instead (so as to extend the range of their protective bubble)?

 

Given the models you list I'd go with the following by default;

 

Kaeris -- 5 Pool

+Arcane Reservoir [2]

+Grab and Drop [1]

 

Metal Gamin [4]

Metal Gamin [4]

Rail Golem [11]

Rail Worker [5]

Rail Worker [5]

The Firestarter [7]

 

This should be fairly flexible. I'd bring a Gunsmith and Bleeding Edge Tech in for Reckoning. I'd throw imbued energies on The Firestarter in Stake a Claim or Squatter's Rights.

 

Thanks mythicFox.

 

As you may have twigged already (from my username), I've been following your ToMB blog entries, and really liked the VASSAL video you did.

 

Interestingly, this list is pretty much in the direction my thinking had already been starting to go - so I'm glad that means I was probably thinking at least close to, if not along, the right tracks!

 

 

 When you say "bring a Gunsmith and Bleeding Edge Tech in for Reckoning", what would you drop? The Rail Workers? And put BET on The Firestarter, or on Kaeris?

[EntrepeNinja]

The reason he's particularly strong with Kaeris is it makes her activation order MUCH simpler- 

 

Wings of fire makes it so they have to a) have burning when they activate, and b- activate within 6 of Kaeris. So were Kaeris to do it herself, she'd have to Activate, hand out a bunch of burning.......... and then stand there. She's move 6 with flight, so she can catch up well enough on turn two, but it'll severly limit her turn two abilites.

 

By having the Malifaux Child do it, all of that can take place before Kaeris even activates. Child warms some folks up with flaming halo (only two, if she catches the double book trigger, so cheat one in), then they can activate (having been deployed within 6 of Kaeris) and fly away placing scheme markers. THEN Kaeris can move up and support them and do more in her activation than just preheat her gimmick. 

 

This isn't to say that either of those are the only ways to open- far from. It's just one of the easiest and most efficient ways to get scheme marker generation down field turn one. And giving key "frontline" models flight in turn one can give them some serious hops.

 

You've got the Metal Gamin idea down, yeah. Giving more bubbles means a bigger window for the Rail Golem to move around in. You can also take "Imbued Protection" (I believe?) to give him some DF also.

 

All that being said, yes, listen to Fox, he's got way more table time than I do with Kaeris, so probably a better understanding of the little interactions, and not just the broad strokes and theoryfaux.

 

ENinja

[Scorpion0x17]

OK, yeah, it's pretty much what I thought then - basically he's useful in any crew where your master has a useful ca, but there's also a particularly good synergy there in a Kaeris crew.

 

He's definitely something I'll keep in mind if/when I think about entering tournaments.

 

This isn't to say that either of those are the only ways to open- far from. It's just one of the easiest and most efficient ways to get scheme marker generation down field turn one. And giving key "frontline" models flight in turn one can give them some serious hops.

I guess you haven't watched Fox's video then!

 

(though, Malifaux Child is more flexible)

[Ratty]

I didn't say opponents, I just said it can 'hand out burning'. I should have been clearer as I meant that it could pass burning to it's own crew.

 

The Arcane Effigy is an interesting one. I usually take one when I want the condition removal. As you say it'll only really work on immolate, and at the point I'm immolating the target's normally already as on fire as I want it to be.

 

On another note I did an experimental video battle report with Kaeris, you can see it here;  http://youtu.be/G7EWRAe4Rkg

 

It was good Mythic, if anything it could do with being a tiny bit slower. It was quite hard for our new Kaeris player to keep up.

[Scorpion0x17]

And put BET on The Firestarter, or on Kaeris?

Ah... I think I see...

Put it on the Rail Golem and keep him and the Metal Gamins together as a slow but hard to kill group, whilst the rest of the crew are more mobile.

Still not certain what's best to drop, though.

I'm guessing drop the Rail Workers for the Gunsmith and take an extra 2 stones of cache.

But do the extra stones and the Gunsmiths toolbox really counter the loss of an extra activation?

And, on the other hand, dropping the Firestarter for a Gunsmith would be a one-for-one swap, but I'd lose his ability to gain me VPs from models that die from Burning.

[Sholto]

Played one game with Kaeris at the Scottish GT at the weekend. I haven't played her since the Beta, but I think I got a great match-up for her on a table that played to her strengths. Turf War against Pandora on a Wild West, building-heavy table with a gallows in the middle and lots of empty space around it. Opponent was Pandora and I took Murder Protege on Teddy and Plant Evidence.

 

I went with a gunline crew, taking two Gunsmiths, Sue and Lazarus for the shooting, but also for Sue's :-flip on Ca. Combined with his Burning synergy, Sue is a great model for Kaeris and especially against Neverborn, other Arcanists or Sonnia. I also took the Totem (for the Burning damage & healing), a Performer to Lure models into place or out of cover and remove enemy Scheme Markers and a Soulstone Miner for Plant Evidence. For me, the Soulstone Miner is becoming a must-have (I took it in 4 out of 4 games, and that was with 4 different Masters!)

 

It was my first time against Pandora, but I just demolished her crew piece by piece and then her, leaving Baby Kade and Candy hiding away. That included Kaeris Black Jokering the Terrifying test to target Teddy on Turn 2 (lots of 'T's there!), losing her an entire Activation.

 

Not sure I learned a great deal about her crew as the game was very one-sided, but it was a lot of fun

 

Because the Strategy was Turf War, I choose Purifying Fire for the healing. I never used the Pyre Markers. I also choose Blinding Flame, as the two triggers are fantastic. Shoot Lazarus on Turn 1 to move him up 6", or use it to push enemy models out of range of the Turf Marker.

 

I found that when Kaeris didn't need to move into position, the best thing was to shoot her own crew with Flaming Halo, hoping for the trigger to get at least three of them Burning, and then use Truth In Flame to draw cards. If I was lucky, I would also get two Fast Gunsmiths out of it as well.

[mythicFOX]

Cool, how'd you do at the GT?   I was playing down south at Deliverance in Cardiff at the weekend.

 

I used Kaeris in two games.  Must say I'm starting to prefer Purifying Fire to Grab & Drop.  The combination of healing and Pyre markers is proving a stronger attraction right now.

 

Is anyone else using the Specialist right now? I've tried him a couple of times and can't decide if he's great or a liability.

[Sholto]

I got 6th place, which I was very pleased with indeed. I didn't use Kaeris in all my games, though. It was a four game GT, so I decided in advance I would use all four of my Arcanist Masters, one per game.

 

Ended up against eventual winner Greg P on the top table for game 4, which was pretty awesome, and it ended up being a very close game as well (he won!)

 

Never tried the Specialist, but I also haven't felt the need for more Burning in the crew. It's useful, sure, but not necessary. Not like Sonnia, who really wants someone to be Burning before she can go to town on them.

 

You done a batrep for Deliverance?

[mythicFOX]

Thought I'd responded to this already, my bad.  Well done on 6th, looked like it was a tough field up there.  I probably wont get a betrap done on Deliverance, I doubt I'm going to have the time I'm afraid.

 

Got another game in with the Specialist and am now coming down on the side of liability for him.  Currently looking to tray a LSA and see how that works out.